US election 2020

[Lazza]

[stui magpie]

[Jezza]

[David]

[Wokko]

[Pies4shaw]

[Wokko]

[Pies4shaw]

You’re losing the plot, now.. jackboots like you always do.

[Lazza]

[David]

*ahem* back on topic – here’s a long post-mortem on the Sanders campaign and why it failed. I don’t agree with all of it, but there are some astute points:

https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2020/05/first-as-tragedy-then-as-farce/

[Pies4shaw]

The Democrats have values that would, for the most part, sit comfortably with most Australians who voted for Morrison’s LNP Government, here. They were never going to “unite” behind Sanders if he purported to offer any “genuine”, “revolutionary” alternative.

The bigger question the Democrats should be asking themselves is why they suddenly can’t identify a suitably electable candidate in a population of 300 million people who is not likely to become an octogenarian while in office.

[Pies4shaw]

Here’s a small piece on that last subject: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/why-are-these-people-so-freaking-old/607492/

[David]

While I agree with some of its points, I think the main problem with that Atlantic article is that 1) it suggests that there’s any kind of relationship between older voters and older candidates, and 2) that older candidates are less likely to look out for the interests of younger voters. The Democratic primary proved both of those points wrong, or at the very least provided a number of notable exceptions: Sanders, the oldest candidate, had the youngest voting base of any of the major candidates, while Buttigieg, the youngest candidate, had one of the oldest – and one only needs to look at their respective policy platforms to see why.

Ultimately, what articles like these seem to overlook (and the same goes for the genre of articles earlier in the year bemoaning the departure of all the non-white candidates from the race) is that there were a substantial number of non-geriatric (and, for that matter, female and/or non-white) candidates, some of them with all the establishment support and money anyone could reasonably hope for, but voters – black voters, Hispanic voters, female voters and young voters alike – just didn’t like them enough.

I do think that Biden and Sanders benefited from name recognition and longevity of public awareness of them (though hardly anyone knew who Sanders was five years ago), and that does support the critique of the elderly having an unfair advantage. (Trump certainly benefited from having been in the public eye forever.) And I also think that having both Sanders and Biden in the race helped deflect focus on either’s age, which might have become a much bigger perceived handicap otherwise. But it’s also possible that, beyond these factors, it’s a coincidence, and that it was always going to come down to the popular ex-VP vs the popular socialist outsider regardless of how old they happened to be.

[stui magpie]

I actually agree with P4S on the Democrats not being a left wing or progressive party, (one of us may have concussion) and also on the age thing.

The real issue for the Democrats for mine, and I may have said this before, is that I think they're at risk of losing their identity.

Both the Democrats and Republicans are right of centre on most issues on any balanced view. The Democrats are more socially progressive and have attracted the growing core of left wingers who have no where else to go.

Now it's all well and good for the Democrats to accept these people and pay lip service to their ideals in return for votes, it's a different discussion when they want influence over party ideals and direction, let alone control.

Also, being "Left Wing" in the USA covers a varied collection of ideals depending whether you're talking social, economic, both or blended. So you potentially have a number of forces in battle for the soul of the party for which the only guaranteed lose is the current establishment.

It may actually be in the parties best interest that Biden loses to Trump and they are forced to look in the mirror and reinvent themselves .

[David]

There’ll certainly be some soul-searching if that happens. Or, at any rate, there should be.