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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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Post subject: Learn from wasted picks, Woods ! | |
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So Dayne Beams has finished, retired from Collingwood i heard? What a shame, and what a waste of good picks that was, on a player who clearly had some issues. We are not alone of course, looks like the Cats have made a doozy with that player they got from the Saints. What grinds my gears is we gave up two picks on an older player, with issues, that should have gone on some young promising kids. I really hope our recruiting officials learn from this whopping mistake, and never go down this track of re cyling a player with issues. We have had our fingers badly burnt, so i just hope this sort of thing never happens again. Then again, i would not count on it not happening again ! _________________ Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Raw Hammer
Joined: 11 Sep 2008 Location: The Gutter
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We used the traded picks (points) to land Isaac Quaynor and Will Kelly. We were always picking them up with whatever picks we had. _________________ Est. 2002 |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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Raw Hammer wrote: | We used the traded picks (points) to land Isaac Quaynor and Will Kelly. We were always picking them up with whatever picks we had. |
Though we could of Moved up before a IQ Pick like Freo did in the last Draft _________________ I am Da Man |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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Post subject: | |
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Raw Hammer wrote: | We used the traded picks (points) to land Isaac Quaynor and Will Kelly. We were always picking them up with whatever picks we had. |
That argument should have died long ago.
The IQ/WK drafting was unrelated to the DB trade, so it is irrelevant. IQ/WK cannot be used to justify the DB trade.
You'd have to compare the DB trade with everything else the club could have done, while still picking up IQ/WK. (One example is what Dave says above, but there are many other things the club could have done.) |
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Mr Miyagi
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
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And we could have got a dud, who knows in hindsight. |
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WhyPhilWhy?
WhyPhilWhy?
Joined: 09 Oct 2001 Location: Location: Location:
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The DB trade IS linked to the IQ/WK draft in that it could be done without jeopardizing their selection.
The Recruitment team are not dumb - we intended to take IQ & WK regardless. If we could do that and still grab a supposedly able DB then it was win/win. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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Post subject: | |
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WhyPhilWhy? wrote: | The DB trade IS linked to the IQ/WK draft in that it could be done without jeopardizing their selection.
The Recruitment team are not dumb - we intended to take IQ & WK regardless. ... |
No, no, no, no, no.
There are many different things the recruitment team could have done while still taking IQ & WK.
So of all the things they could have done, they chose to do the DB trade. So you have to compare with all the other things they could have done if you want to excuse the DB trade by IQ & WK. (DTM has pointed out one of those many other things they could have done while still taking IQ & WK.)
The only way you can try to make the IQ & WK argument is to argue that somehow all those other things they did not do would have been worse or would not have been possible. (e.g. If they moved up in the draft, they would have picked a dud, which implies that this recruitment team that is "not dumb" suddenly is "dumb" when it comes to using a top-12 pick . In reality, you don't need to be "dumb" to make mistakes. But of course this dud-top-12-pick line is only the start of the argument, because you'd still need to discount all the other things the club could have done while still taking IQ and WK.) |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Mr Miyagi wrote: | And we could have got a dud, who knows in hindsight. |
Well, we did - and what’s worse, we already knew it from the first time around. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Raw Hammer wrote: | We used the traded picks (points) to land Isaac Quaynor and Will Kelly. We were always picking them up with whatever picks we had. |
shhhhh!! you cant make too much sense. People will think you are lost. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Post subject: | |
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Dave The Man wrote: | Raw Hammer wrote: | We used the traded picks (points) to land Isaac Quaynor and Will Kelly. We were always picking them up with whatever picks we had. |
Though we could of Moved up before a IQ Pick like Freo did in the last Draft |
They tried and failed. There was no trade they could make to move up high enough without giving up valuable assets. You are forgetting that we were also trying to win a flag the following year so didnt really have assets to spare.
What if Jolly had of done his knee in his first game for the pies (and Luke Ball went down with OP again)?? You guys would still be talking of those colossal mistakes!! When you are looking for a small advantage to take you over the top to win a flag, you have to judge that with different eyes me thinks.
Its funny that half the crap on here is bemoaning the moves we make, and the other half are bemoaning the moves we didn't make. Sometimes, in the case of Leigh Brown and Chris Mayne, you guys can do it over the same move!!!! I still remember the outrage on this site when Scott Pendlebury was taken at 5!!!!
You want the club to be bold, but if any of the bold trades don't work out, you persecute the club.
If the rule is that you have to win EVERY SINGLE Trade (with both foresight AND hindsight), WTF are the other 17 clubs doing?? _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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^ True, and i think the tigers have the honour of the greatest ever recruiting bungle, when the could have got a young Buddy, but went for a guy named Tambling, who did not play many games for them, was a fizzer actually. To overlook Buddy, is a big mistake, thats the big one. _________________ Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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Post subject: | |
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E wrote: | ...
What if Jolly had of done his knee in his first game for the pies (and Luke Ball went down with OP again)?? ...
Sometimes, in the case of Leigh Brown and Chris Mayne, you guys can do it over the same move!!!! ...
You want the club to be bold, but if any of the bold trades don't work out, you persecute the club.
If the rule is that you have to win EVERY SINGLE Trade (with both foresight AND hindsight), WTF are the other 17 clubs doing?? |
All of Ball, Brown, Mayne came dirt cheap in terms of draft/player cost. Jolly was a fair enough trade, too.
Trades do not need to have one club screwed over. There can be win-win trades and trades that are just fair to both clubs. "WTF are the other clubs doing" assumes the screw-over trade model, which is the opposite of what makes the clubs that are good at trading good. |
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piedys
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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I thought the issue was the actual 2nd 1st-round pick we gave to Brisbane, which was used in the 2019 draft, which was where the currency was lost?
Unless I'm mistaken, we could have selected from the players below, prior to selection of Rantall?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_AFL_draft
Priority
22 Deven Robertson Brisbane Lions Perth WAFL Traded from Port Adelaide; received from Carlton at the draft; received from Gold Coast at the draft
2 23 Dylan Williams Port Adelaide Oakleigh Chargers NAB League Traded from Brisbane Lions; received from Gold Coast in 2018
24 Harry Schoenberg Adelaide Woodville-West Torrens SANFL Traded from Fremantle; received from Melbourne
25 Jackson Mead Port Adelaide Woodville-West Torrens SANFL Father–son selection (son of Darren Mead), matched bid by Sydney
26 Will Gould Sydney Glenelg SANFL Traded from Adelaide at the draft; received from Carlton (via Greater Western Sydney) in 2018
27 Jeremy Sharp Gold Coast East Fremantle WAFL Traded from Geelong at the draft; received from West Coast; received from Sydney in 2018
28 Josh Worrell Adelaide Sandringham Dragons NAB League Traded from Sydney at the draft; received from St Kilda in 2018
29 Finn Maginness Hawthorn Sandringham Dragons NAB League Father–son selection (son of Scott Maginness), matched bid by North Melbourne
30 Harrison Jones Essendon Calder Cannons NAB League Traded from North Melbourne at the draft; received from Melbourne; received from Fremantle
31 Charlie Comben North Melbourne Gippsland Power NAB League
32 Trent Rivers Melbourne East Fremantle WAFL Traded from Fremantle; received from Adelaide
33 Brock Smith Brisbane Lions Gippsland Power NAB League Traded from Port Adelaide
34 Jack Mahony North Melbourne Sandringham Dragons NAB League Traded from Hawthorn
35 Flynn Perez North Melbourne Bendigo Pioneers NAB League Traded from Essendon at the draft
36 Elijah Taylor Sydney Perth WAFL Traded from St Kilda; received from Western Bulldogs
37 Keidean Coleman Brisbane Lions Brisbane Lions NEAFL Academy selection, matched bid by Essendon
38 Nick Bryan Essendon Oakleigh Chargers NAB League Traded from West Coast
39 Chad Warner Sydney East Fremantle WAFL
40 Jay Rantall Collingwood GWV Rebels NAB League
Now it might take years for the talent of these kids to manifest, to the point where any evidence of a wasted pick appears?
Anyhoo, this is all a result of Maguire opening his big mouth in the media and throwing Lynch under the bus with GCS late in 2018, ostracizing him from that club, and thus deferring to Richmond out of spite.
Had we snaffled him, 2019 might have very well played out differently.
And probably would have got Beams back from Brisbane for a bag of beans late in 2019, IF he was still motivated to play. _________________ M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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Post subject: | |
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piedys wrote: |
Anyhoo, this is all a result of Maguire opening his big mouth in the media and throwing Lynch under the bus with GCS late in 2018, ostracizing him from that club, and thus deferring to Richmond out of spite. |
Again I agree. However it also frustrates me that like many others, especially in the media, he very rarely if ever admits to having made a big mistake _________________ Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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piedys
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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Lazza wrote: | piedys wrote: |
Anyhoo, this is all a result of Maguire opening his big mouth in the media and throwing Lynch under the bus with GCS late in 2018, ostracizing him from that club, and thus deferring to Richmond out of spite. |
Again I agree. However it also frustrates me that like many others, especially in the media, he very rarely if ever admits to having made a big mistake |
As much as I frown on maligning Eddie, after all he has achieved for the club, this was totally unnecessary, a breach of confidence with that player, and has cost us BIG TIME. _________________ M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
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