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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| piedys wrote: |
As much as I frown on maligning Eddie, after all he has achieved for the club, this was totally unnecessary, a breach of confidence with that player, and has cost us BIG TIME. |
Yep, it is a conundrum 
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| K wrote: | | E wrote: | ...
What if Jolly had of done his knee in his first game for the pies (and Luke Ball went down with OP again)?? ...
Sometimes, in the case of Leigh Brown and Chris Mayne, you guys can do it over the same move!!!! ...
You want the club to be bold, but if any of the bold trades don't work out, you persecute the club.
If the rule is that you have to win EVERY SINGLE Trade (with both foresight AND hindsight), WTF are the other 17 clubs doing?? |
All of Ball, Brown, Mayne came dirt cheap in terms of draft/player cost. Jolly was a fair enough trade, too.
Trades do not need to have one club screwed over. There can be win-win trades and trades that are just fair to both clubs. "WTF are the other clubs doing" assumes the screw-over trade model, which is the opposite of what makes the clubs that are good at trading good. |
Not sure there was much difference between Beams and Ball. maybe 5 or 6 picks.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| And, of course, Ball was a gun inside mid. A piece of the puzzle we were actually missing. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| E wrote: | ...
Not sure there was much difference between Beams and Ball. maybe 5 or 6 picks. |
Ball was pick 30 in the national draft.
Beams was a trade of two first-rounders (plus picks 41, 44 in, 56 out)...
Sounds totally different to me. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| K wrote: | | E wrote: | ...
Not sure there was much difference between Beams and Ball. maybe 5 or 6 picks. |
Ball was pick 30 in the national draft.
Beams was a trade of two first-rounders (plus picks 41, 44 in, 56 out)...
Sounds totally different to me. |
yeah, think you are still missing the point.....
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | And, of course, Ball was a gun inside mid. A piece of the puzzle we were actually missing. |
Beams was a fairly handy player himself..... Ball was a past his prime inside mid who was suffering from a career threatening case of OP. I think people easily forget that this was a calculated gamble just like the beams move was.
and in response to others, calling the 2019 pick a "first round pick" doesn't change the fact that it was located in the range of pick 20-22. i know there is some value in pick 20-22, but its not like the Treloar deal where we gave up two pick 6's (where you kind of expect to draft a top of the rotation player). I'm aware that Grundy was taken with a late teen pick, but so were Broomhead and Kennedy.
And we were gunning for any little advantage to push us over the edge. And we had just lost out on the Lynch sweepstakes. And nothing else we tried was working. And we were determined to get better.
It was an odd deal at the time. Didn't seem to fit our needs. Maybe if Sier hadn't have completely run out of gas in the grand final, we wouldn't have felt the need for another powerful mid.
I guess its all Sier's fault!!
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| E wrote: | ...
yeah, think you are still missing the point..... |
Nope. There is no valid point to miss. |
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WhyPhilWhy?
WhyPhilWhy?
Joined: 09 Oct 2001
Location: Location: Location:
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| K wrote: | | There are many different things the recruitment team could have done while still taking IQ & WK. |
Such as? |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| WhyPhilWhy? wrote: | ...
Such as? |
e.g. DTM gave just one of many, many possibilities. DTM said that Freo did exactly that, though I don't remember what Freo did without looking it up.
Just for that "one" possibility, there are actually 12 top-12 picks to try to get a swap for (obviously, pick 12 is easier to get than pick 1, but the overall picture is clear), which probably is at least 10 different clubs you could negotiate with (and if one club has two top-12 picks, they're probably even more open to swapping one of them). |
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Born to Pie
Born to Pie
Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Location: Tolga FNQ
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Our trading & drafting in the last 5 (2015 -2019) years tell me if they are a failure? I've highlighted in bold what I consider a success in trade/draft, but there are still quite a few that can't be judged.
Year Draft Pick Name Games
2019 National 40 Jay Rantall 0
2019 National 45 Trent Bianco 0
2019 National 55 Trey Ruscoe 0
2019 Trade Darcy Cameron 0
2018 Midyear 14 John Noble 6
2018 National 13 Isaac Quaynor 4
2018 National 29 Will Kelly 0
2018 National 77 Atu Bosenavulagi 0
2018 Rookie 17 Timothy Broomhead 0
2018 Rookie 33 Samuel Murray 0
2018 Trade Dayne Beams 9
2018 Trade Joran Roughead 25
2017 National 6 Jaidyn Stephenson 40
2017 National 39 Nathan Murphy 2
2017 National 50 Tyler Brown 1
2017 Rookie 6 Flynn Appleby 10
2017 Rookie 22 Brody Mihocek 41
2017 Rookie 33 Adam Oxley 3
2017 Trade Sam Murray 13
2016 National 30 Sam McLarty 0
2016 National 35 Callum Brown 36
2016 National 50 Kayle Kirby 1
2016 National 57 Josh Daicos 18
2016 Rookie 7 Mitch McCarthy 0
2016 Rookie 24 Henry Schade 8
2016 Rookie 40 Liam Mackie 0
2016 Rookie 51 Max Lynch 0
2016 Trade Will Hoskin-Elliott 68
2016 Trade Lynden Dunn 31
2016 Free Agent Daniel Wells 15
2015 National 32 Brayden Sier 18
2015 National 58 Tom Phillips 75
2015 National 63 Rupert Wills 15
2015 National 65 Ben Crocker 26
2015 Rookie 7 Lachlan Keeffe 0
2015 Rookie 25 Josh Smith 32
2015 Rookie 42 Josh Thomas 58
2015 Rookie 55 Tim Golds 0
2015 Rookie 64 Darrean Wyatt 0
2015 Trade Jeremy Howe 84
2015 Trade Adam Treloar 84
2015 Trade James Aish 50
Note: Keeffe & Thomas Rookie drafted in 2015 numbers of games is games played since that draft
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In the end, it's not going to matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away |
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WhyPhilWhy?
WhyPhilWhy?
Joined: 09 Oct 2001
Location: Location: Location:
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| So no actual examples then - just some maybes and perhapses. |
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Born to Pie
Born to Pie
Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Location: Tolga FNQ
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| WhyPhilWhy? wrote: | | So no actual examples then - just some maybes and perhapses. |
Everyone can make up their own minds, but for the Pies in the last 5 years the draft itself has been a bust to date with the exception of Stephenson.
Over the 5 year period we've traded 4 first rounders for Treloar & Beams, so 4 picks for one gem and a bust. Only one other gem (Stevo) and no other draft picks in the 5 years appear as gems just yet, but time will tell.
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In the end, it's not going to matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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Can you imagine some of these guys at Crown?
“Oh you IDIOT!! Why didn’t you bet on red instead of black??? It’s SOOOO obvious red was going to come up. Look, that guy over there just hit the jackpot on the pokies, why didn’t you play them instead, moron!?”
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https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/sav-sinks-the-dockers/ |
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Wonka
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
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| Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote: |
“Oh you IDIOT!! Why didn’t you bet on red instead of black??? It’s SOOOO obvious red was going to come up. Look, that guy over there just hit the jackpot on the pokies, why didn’t you play them instead, moron!?” |
The draft is NOT random.
If you think it's random, why don't you tell Collingwood to sack all its recruiters and save the money? |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| K wrote: | | WhyPhilWhy? wrote: | ...
Such as? |
e.g. DTM gave just one of many, many possibilities. DTM said that Freo did exactly that, though I don't remember what Freo did without looking it up.
Just for that "one" possibility, there are actually 12 top-12 picks to try to get a swap for (obviously, pick 12 is easier to get than pick 1, but the overall picture is clear), which probably is at least 10 different clubs you could negotiate with (and if one club has two top-12 picks, they're probably even more open to swapping one of them). |
fantasy land. Pies tried that. They tried to get lynch as well. Ion the end it was the Beams trade or nothing. Calculated gamble. Could have put us over the top. Turns out, we could have used a top 10 caliber mid. shame he couldn't get up....
I love how people think you can just blink and do whatever makes the most sense on paper.
Laughable....
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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