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George Floyd Police killing and protests

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:49 pm
Post subject: George Floyd Police killing and protestsReply with quote

The earlier discussion ended here: https://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?p=1962160

Please put further discussion concerning the George Floyd killing and subsequent protests/riots in this thread.

Pies4shaw for BBMods.
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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:04 pm
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Thanks for that P4S, efforts much appreciated.

Unfortunately I doubt this will be the last time we see this kind of situation, far better it has it's own thread.

And to start the ball rolling, one for Tannin, I'd consider Antifa left wing, wouldn't you? Or are the stats on that difficult. Razz

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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:58 pm
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George Floyd death: Family seek independent autopsy in police brutality case

An independent medical examiner has been hired by George Floyd’s legal team for an autopsy after one conducted by the county pathologist revealed “no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation”.

Civil rights lawyer Benjamin Crump issued a statement on the weekend addressing the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s preliminary findings, saying “attempts to avoid the hard truth will not stand”.


The findings of the report by forensic pathologists Dr Michael Baden and Dr Allecia Wilson will be made public after the independent autopsy, to be conducted in the next few days.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.news.com.au/world/north-america/george-floyd-death-family-seek-independent-autopsy-in-police-brutality-case/news-story/9711c4eb6f54b321f22dd4012f000744

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Last edited by Morrigu on Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:45 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

^

New results are in

Quote:
An autopsy commissioned by George Floyd's family has found he died of asphyxiation due to neck and back compression when a Minneapolis police officer held his knee on Mr Floyd's neck for several minutes, the family's attorneys say.

Key points:
The family's autopsy differs from the official autopsy
The official autopsy included underlying health issues and potential intoxicants in Mr Floyd's system
It also said it found nothing "to support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation"
The autopsy by a doctor who also examined Eric Garner's body — a black man who died in New York in similar circumstance in 2014 — found the compression cut off blood to Mr Floyd's brain, and weight on his back made it hard to breathe, attorney Ben Crump said at a news conference.

The family's autopsy differs from the official autopsy as described in a criminal complaint against the officer.

That autopsy included the effects of being restrained, along with underlying health issues and potential intoxicants in Mr Floyd's system, but also said it found nothing "to support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation".


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-02/george-floyd-died-asphyxiation-family-autopsy-finds/12310104

I'm not sure if having 2 different results is helpful.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:08 am
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Arnold Schwarzenegger:

The America I Love Needs to Do Better

Patriotism isn’t just the blind love of our flag. It is the work we do to improve our country for every American.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/arnold-schwarzenegger-america-needs-do-better/612442/
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:46 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

stui magpie wrote:
^

New results are in

Quote:
An autopsy commissioned by George Floyd's family has found he died of asphyxiation due to neck and back compression when a Minneapolis police officer held his knee on Mr Floyd's neck for several minutes, the family's attorneys say.

Key points:
The family's autopsy differs from the official autopsy
The official autopsy included underlying health issues and potential intoxicants in Mr Floyd's system
It also said it found nothing "to support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation"
The autopsy by a doctor who also examined Eric Garner's body — a black man who died in New York in similar circumstance in 2014 — found the compression cut off blood to Mr Floyd's brain, and weight on his back made it hard to breathe, attorney Ben Crump said at a news conference.

The family's autopsy differs from the official autopsy as described in a criminal complaint against the officer.

That autopsy included the effects of being restrained, along with underlying health issues and potential intoxicants in Mr Floyd's system, but also said it found nothing "to support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation".


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-02/george-floyd-died-asphyxiation-family-autopsy-finds/12310104

I'm not sure if having 2 different results is helpful.

Medical examiner says George Floyd death a homicide
The Hennepin County Medical Examiner has declared the death of George Floyd a homicide, saying he died of “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual restraint, and neck compression”, Reuters reported, citing a local a Minneapolis station.

The updated report from the examiner stated that Floyd died from a loss of blood flow due to compression on his neck while being restrained by Minneapolis police, local Fox television affiliate Fox 9 reported.

The Hennepin County medical examiner did not immediately respond to request for comment.

The official autopsy by the Hennepin county medical examiner, covering the jurisdiction where Floyd died, last week gave preliminary results that found cause of death to be the “combined effects of Mr Floyd’s being restrained by police, underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system”.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/jun/01/george-floyd-protests-donald-trump-white-house-washington-police-brutality-minneapolis-latest-news-updates?page=with:block-5ed57c788f087122eca53adc#block-5ed57c788f087122eca53adc

It looks like the preliminary autopsy report was wrong.
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:28 am
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Some of the best insights are in the NYT comments section:

NYT Reader wrote:
America had an opportunity to have meaningful dialogue when Kapernick peacefully protested, but what he got was blackballed and publicly disgraced. The cards were put on the table during that moment: it was really about silencing black bodies and showing us who had power. Now, the current protests are equally criticized. Um hmm. Y'all didn't want to listen when people were on a bent knee, so talks of respectful protest now means nothing to those who watched and listened to you in real time. The social contract has been destroyed and no one should blame the rioters as all of the extraordinary evil, incompetence, and violent rhetoric that has been excused and rationalized by the ruling "majority" and those who support them.

https://nyti.ms/2U04IAR#permid=107366322

Indeed. More inaction long after the warning shots, much like coronavirus denial, delay and scoffing. Does anyone with power in that country devote any time at all to managing risk and generally giving a toss? Trump really is an accurate reflection of national delusion.

I feel sorry for all parties concerned and the rest of the world getting dragged down with them. I just wish more people gave a toss two decades ago. Now, they've got the other shoe of pandemic denial, racial segregation denial, inequality denial, climate change denial, and international decline denial all dropping at once during an economic depression. Marvellous.

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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:56 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pies4shaw wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
^

New results are in

Quote:
An autopsy commissioned by George Floyd's family has found he died of asphyxiation due to neck and back compression when a Minneapolis police officer held his knee on Mr Floyd's neck for several minutes, the family's attorneys say.

Key points:
The family's autopsy differs from the official autopsy
The official autopsy included underlying health issues and potential intoxicants in Mr Floyd's system
It also said it found nothing "to support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation"
The autopsy by a doctor who also examined Eric Garner's body — a black man who died in New York in similar circumstance in 2014 — found the compression cut off blood to Mr Floyd's brain, and weight on his back made it hard to breathe, attorney Ben Crump said at a news conference.

The family's autopsy differs from the official autopsy as described in a criminal complaint against the officer.

That autopsy included the effects of being restrained, along with underlying health issues and potential intoxicants in Mr Floyd's system, but also said it found nothing "to support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation".


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-02/george-floyd-died-asphyxiation-family-autopsy-finds/12310104

I'm not sure if having 2 different results is helpful.

Medical examiner says George Floyd death a homicide
The Hennepin County Medical Examiner has declared the death of George Floyd a homicide, saying he died of “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual restraint, and neck compression”, Reuters reported, citing a local a Minneapolis station.

The updated report from the examiner stated that Floyd died from a loss of blood flow due to compression on his neck while being restrained by Minneapolis police, local Fox television affiliate Fox 9 reported.

The Hennepin County medical examiner did not immediately respond to request for comment.

The official autopsy by the Hennepin county medical examiner, covering the jurisdiction where Floyd died, last week gave preliminary results that found cause of death to be the “combined effects of Mr Floyd’s being restrained by police, underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system”.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/jun/01/george-floyd-protests-donald-trump-white-house-washington-police-brutality-minneapolis-latest-news-updates?page=with:block-5ed57c788f087122eca53adc#block-5ed57c788f087122eca53adc

It looks like the preliminary autopsy report was wrong.


I don't think the preliminary autospy report was wrong - I think that due to the use of the terms " traumatic asphyxia or strangulation" it was assumed incorrectly that the ME was suggesting that asphyxiation did not occur. In forensics asphyxia is classified into different categories.

The preliminary report was clear in stating that he died of the effects of being restrained by police, health issues and potential intoxicants - underlying health issues and intoxicants not withstanding the fact that had he not be restrained in the manner and for the time he was he would not have died have to be taken into account when determining cause of death and contributing factors.

The independent and final official autopsy report look pretty aligned to me - compression of the neck resulting in occluded blood flow and asphyxia.

The final report also noted fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use as well as existing heart disease - not the cause of death but wouldn't have been helpful when you are struggling for breath and O2.

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:50 pm
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interesting.

thanks for the explanation,

youd still think though, that saying results of the initial autopsy didnt give cause for criminal charges is a bit of a stretch.

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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:55 pm
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Assuming that they weren't deliberately trying to kill him, which just does not compute, I actually don't understand what they thought they were doing.

This gives a pretty good summary of the 3 different videos that show what happened.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/01/us/george-floyd-three-videos-minneapolis/index.html

Skipping the preamble, they've handcuffed him and tried to get him in the car, he's resisted and ended up on the ground beside the car, so one cop puts his knee on his throat. Why?

There's 4 of them there, Ok, George wasn't a little bloke but he wasn't massive either, there was 4 of them and he was restrained, don't they get training in getting resistant people into the car?

Was the goal to just hurt him until he agreed to not resist? Render him unconscious and load him in? I wouldn't consider either of those to be legitimate tactics for someone resisting arrest but I can't figure out what the goal was.

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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:33 pm
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pietillidie wrote:
Some of the best insights are in the NYT comments section:

NYT Reader wrote:
America had an opportunity to have meaningful dialogue when Kapernick peacefully protested, but what he got was blackballed and publicly disgraced. The cards were put on the table during that moment: it was really about silencing black bodies and showing us who had power. Now, the current protests are equally criticized. Um hmm. Y'all didn't want to listen when people were on a bent knee, so talks of respectful protest now means nothing to those who watched and listened to you in real time. The social contract has been destroyed and no one should blame the rioters as all of the extraordinary evil, incompetence, and violent rhetoric that has been excused and rationalized by the ruling "majority" and those who support them.

https://nyti.ms/2U04IAR#permid=107366322

Indeed. More inaction long after the warning shots, much like coronavirus denial, delay and scoffing. Does anyone with power in that country devote any time at all to managing risk and generally giving a toss?


Agree with all of that, on both counts. And while this problem is much bigger than the current White House occupant, it's absolutely true that Trump led the charge on attacking Kaepernick and ruining his career due to his peaceful protests about the same thing that people are now setting fire to buildings over. People complain about specific "Black Lives Matter" tactics or miss the point about its name, but the biggest thing they overlook is that black lives are so often treated as expendable in confrontations with police, and that none of the tactics employed by protesters up until now have changed that dynamic. Perhaps the powers that be will sit up and pay attention now.

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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:19 pm
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^

Arson and looting are not legitimate protest tactics, they're criminal acts and should be treated as such.

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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010


PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:22 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
^

Arson and looting are not legitimate protest tactics, they're criminal acts and should be treated as such.


what other choice do you have when the problem doesn't go away? And don't say removing Donald Turnip will make a difference as this issue has been around for a loooong time.

This isn't a Trump issue. Obama didn't / couldn't fix it just as all previous Presidents haven't made it better.

#BLM
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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:58 pm
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There are other choices, stealing stuff isn't protesting, it's stealing stuff.

You're right that it's not a Trump issue it's a local and state government issue. It's like every city or council area have their own Police Department.

Go to LA. It has it's own Police Department (LAPD) but Beverly Hills and Santa Monica which are basically suburbs of LA, are their own cities and have their own Police Departments.

That means you have no consistency in training, standards, quality of recruits and each city Mayor wields influence over their Police Department.

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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:04 pm
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think positive wrote:
interesting.

thanks for the explanation,

youd still think though, that saying results of the initial autopsy didnt give cause for criminal charges is a bit of a stretch.


But it did - the findings of the preliminary autopsy report were detailed in the criminal complaint that saw him charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter and the other three fired.

Now that the final report has been released with the ME classifying his death as a homicide, it will be interesting to see if the charges are upgraded (I don't know what 3rd degree murder actually means?) and the other 3 are charged?

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