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Post Match. Pies done by Eagles. All comments, please.

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JC Hartley Cancer

I've witnessed #15, now our empire will charge down #16.


Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Location: South Yarra

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:35 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

After a bright start to the game in the opening term which included a 20-point lead, Collingwood were non-existent for the remaining three quarters to fall short by 66 points (11 goals) against West Coast. The Magpies were unable to move the ball freely as often as they were deprived of meaningful entries to score enough goals. Whenever the Eagles had a shot at goal, they would nail it from every angle on offer to maximise capital punishment on the scoreboard. Brodie Grundy lost his battle against Nic Naitanui in the ruck, which was most unusual and meant that Grundy was moved to full-forward in the last term, while Collingwood's midfielders were not able to win an adequate amount of disposals that impacted the contest, as was the inability of Collingwood's half-back flankers to generate scoring chains in the team's ball movement, which caused a holding-pattern and made the Woods more exposed to conceding marks and ultimately goals in the defensive arc. Losing Scott Pendlebury just minutes before the toss, put all of the planning out the window, causing Atu Bosenavulagi to scramble in the rooms as Pendlebury's replacement, and meant Taylor Adams had the captaincy for the day.

Collingwood had gains from handballs by +5 (118 - 113), contested possessions were won by +15 (118 - 103), +6 for intercept possessions (51 - 45), Contested Marks had a differential of +1 (12 - 11), and Inside 50s were +2 (37 - 35). You'd be forgiven for thinking that the Magpies were able to have more entries than the Eagles, but the lack of marks, pressure and conversion that the Woods had, meant that the Eagles were able to utilise those avenues to goal much more easily and effectively. West Coast had vast gains from disposals by +28 (300 - 272), kicks were +33 (187 - 154), +34 for uncontested possessions (190 - 156), hit-outs was +1 (28 - 27), and clearances were won by +8 (32 - 24). Centre clearances had a differential of +3 (13 - 10), stoppage clearances were won by +5 (19 - 14), +11 for tackles (48 - 37), while marks were +26 (86 - 60), with an advantage of +27 for uncontested marks ( 75-48 ), and Marks Inside 50 were won handsomely by +6 ( 14-8 ). There's the point of difference in the contest, each of the marks that were taken inside the forward arc of the Eagles resulted in goals being converted.

Adam Treloar (22 disposals @ 46%, 417 metres gained, 11 contested possessions, 11 uncontested possessions, 12 kicks, 10 handballs, 3 marks, 5 score involvements, 4 clearances, 3 stoppage clearances, 7 Inside 50s & 2 Rebound 50s) was Collingwood's most likely player to impact the game, but fell short of the mark with his ball use too often.

Taylor Adams (21 disposals @ 71%, 252 metres gained, 10 contested possessions, 11 uncontested possessions, 4 intercept possessions, 11 kicks, 10 handballs, 2 marks, 2 tackles, 4 score involvements, 5 clearances, 3 centre clearances, 2 stoppage clearances & 3 Inside 50s) played a solid game as acting skipper, yet he did not have adequate support on the outside of the contest to be extremely benefical to the team ball movement.

Isaac Quaynor (18 disposals @ 83%, 187 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 12 uncontested possessions, 6 intercept possessions, 6 kicks, 12 handballs, 3 marks & 2 tackles) racked up possessions, but was not able to generate enough kicks, which got closed down significantly.

Jack Crisp (18 disposals @ 78%, 297 metres gained, 9 contested possessions, 9 uncontested possessions, 6 intercept possessions, 14 kicks, 4 handballs, 5 marks, 2 tackles, 2 score involvements & 2 Inside 50s) had his impact on the game restricted and never really got going.

Brayden Maynard (13 disposals @ 62%, 334 metres gained, 3 contested possessions, 10 uncontested possessions, 2 intercept possessions, 2 marks, 2 tackles, 2 score involvements, 3 Inside 50s & 3 Rebound 50s) had a similar impact on the game in lieu with Crisp, where there was territory gained, but not in the right areas of the ground for the team to thrive successfully.

Darcy Moore (12 disposals @ 75%, 229 metres gained, 4 contested possessions, 8 uncontested possessions, 5 intercept possessions, 11 kicks, 8 marks, 2 score involvements & 3 Rebound 50s) did all he could do in taking marks and provide territory, yet he was spending more time saving goals instead of generating attacks.

Jaidyn Stephenson (13 disposals @ 69%, 162 metres gained, 2 contested possessions, 11 uncontested possessions, 6 kicks, 7 handballs, 3 marks, 3 tackles, 2 goal assists, 2 score involvements & 2 Inside 50s) started well, before working high up the ground to find the ball without much reward.

Will Hoskin-Elliott (12 disposals @ 50%, 243 metres gained, 4 contested possessions, 8 uncontested possessions, 11 kicks, 5 marks, 2 Contested Marks, 3 score involvements, 3 Inside 50s & 2 goals) had a good half of footy, before supply dried up for him in the second half.

Darcy Cameron (8 disposals @ 75%, 168 metres gained, 8 contested possessions, 3 hit-outs, 5 kicks, 3 handballs, 3 marks, 2 Contested Marks, 2 score involvements, 2 Inside 50s & 2 goals) had an impressive opening to the game, but much like Hoskin-Elliott & co, there was no meaningful supply for him to extend his dominance.

Collingwood's next game will be on August 2 at Optus Stadium against Fremantle. Steele Sidebottom returns from suspension, as uncertainty looms over Scott Pendlebury's availability to lead the side out against the Dockers. Scoreboard impact from forward entries needs to be vastly greater than what it was. I want more marks taken up forward or forwards to create opportunities at ground level to allow greater access to scoring shots that are then converted. That's my manifesto for this week, now it is up to the Woods to heed my message going forward.

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Last edited by JC Hartley on Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:53 am
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Thanks JC. I love your analysis. So objective and scientific. Very edifying.
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Piesnchess 



Joined: 09 Jun 2008


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:48 am
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yes, JC is a logical and commonsense poster, a rare breed on Nicks at best of times. !
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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:55 am
Post subject: Re: Take a chill pillReply with quote

hot pie wrote:
Any. Ouch worth there salt new at half time we were done, we took the smart way ant tried other options.
My concern how the million dollar man performed


He is the most over rated player I have ever seen wear the black and white. My opinion is not based on yesterday’s performance, that was just more evidence of the same. He’s a good player, but that’s it.
He can’t kick.
His ruck hitouts are meaningless.
He doesn’t hurt the opposition as whenever he gains possession he is glacier slow with the ball, chips it nowhere leaving the defence ample time to flood back.
He is rarely involved in a chain of possessions resulting in a score.
When he’s in the ruck he doesn’t run forward to work over the less athletic opponent. I assume he is saving himself so he can ruck almost the entire game.
He is one dimensional as he can only play in the ruck. If he goes forward he is like Cox, effectively leaving us one short.
He has all of the attributes to become a very good player and he has time to do so but to date he is all sizzle and no sausage.
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glasseyevfx 



Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Location: Gold Coast

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:33 am
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important loss.
don't learn anything new without a failure to teach us something. We should hold onto that loss to make us better.

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:48 am
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glasseyevfx wrote:
important loss.
don't learn anything new without a failure to teach us something. We should hold onto that loss to make us better.


yup

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Sicks Bux Sagittarius

Hal 2003-2019


Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Me Island Ome

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:25 am
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We need more smalls to get front and centre of marking contests in our forward 50. Everytime the the ball hits the deck in our F 50 it seems to get crumbed by an opposition player. Can we get Phil Matera down to the club to tell them how it's done?
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masoncox 



Joined: 31 Aug 2015


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:48 am
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front and square... that is footy 101!!!!
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Mr Miyagi 



Joined: 14 Sep 2018


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:51 am
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No Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe, De Goey. That hurt. The Hub Effect also isn’t helping.
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Sicks Bux Sagittarius

Hal 2003-2019


Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Me Island Ome

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:54 am
Post subject: Re: Take a chill pillReply with quote

5 from the wing on debut wrote:
hot pie wrote:
Any. Ouch worth there salt new at half time we were done, we took the smart way ant tried other options.
My concern how the million dollar man performed


He is the most over rated player I have ever seen wear the black and white. My opinion is not based on yesterday’s performance, that was just more evidence of the same. He’s a good player, but that’s it.
He can’t kick.
His ruck hitouts are meaningless.
He doesn’t hurt the opposition as whenever he gains possession he is glacier slow with the ball, chips it nowhere leaving the defence ample time to flood back.
He is rarely involved in a chain of possessions resulting in a score.
When he’s in the ruck he doesn’t run forward to work over the less athletic opponent. I assume he is saving himself so he can ruck almost the entire game.
He is one dimensional as he can only play in the ruck. If he goes forward he is like Cox, effectively leaving us one short.
He has all of the attributes to become a very good player and he has time to do so but to date he is all sizzle and no sausage.


He got beaten by his direct opponent for the first time in a long time and we ended up getting thrashed for the first time in a long time. That shows you how much we rely on him.
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inxs88 



Joined: 17 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:43 am
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Changes:

In:

Steele
Pendles
Sier
T Brown
Rantall
Varcoe
Keane

Out:

C Brown (inj)
Atu
Rupert
Thomas
Scharenberg
Phillips
Noble

(all omitted)

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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:00 am
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Why would you omit Noble? Thought he was one of the few who kept trying for four quarters.
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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:11 am
Post subject: Re: Take a chill pillReply with quote

Sicks Bux wrote:
5 from the wing on debut wrote:
hot pie wrote:
Any. Ouch worth there salt new at half time we were done, we took the smart way ant tried other options.
My concern how the million dollar man performed


He is the most over rated player I have ever seen wear the black and white. My opinion is not based on yesterday’s performance, that was just more evidence of the same. He’s a good player, but that’s it.
He can’t kick.
His ruck hitouts are meaningless.
He doesn’t hurt the opposition as whenever he gains possession he is glacier slow with the ball, chips it nowhere leaving the defence ample time to flood back.
He is rarely involved in a chain of possessions resulting in a score.
When he’s in the ruck he doesn’t run forward to work over the less athletic opponent. I assume he is saving himself so he can ruck almost the entire game.
He is one dimensional as he can only play in the ruck. If he goes forward he is like Cox, effectively leaving us one short.
He has all of the attributes to become a very good player and he has time to do so but to date he is all sizzle and no sausage.


He got beaten by his direct opponent for the first time in a long time and we ended up getting thrashed for the first time in a long time. That shows you how much we rely on him.


Really? There's a causal relationship between those two things is there?

We rely on him to neutralise the other teams' ruckman so when the ball hits the grass after his tap outs it's then a 50/50 battle. Watching that occur almost every week and looking at his historical hitouts to advantage numbers confirms that. Nic Nat did things yesterday that Brody has never been able to do. He may learn to do it in time but he's not there now.

Brody was schooled in ruckwork yesterday but I don't see him as being the reason for the loss.I thought that we were thrashed because there were too many players in the team yesterday that are not of AFL standard. Two basic mistakes by Josh Thomas in the last two minutes before half time led to two WC goals. That cracked their confidence. Callum Brown has the knack of getting the ball with space and either being too slow to decide what to do with it or runs into trouble with it. He can't kick and he knows that so he doesn't know what to do. His team mates look at him now and don't give it to him. Wills tries hard but has no skill or match IQ. Noble has pace but it's a lottery where the ball will end up when he kicks. Atu is a development player that has no business playing in an AFL senior game at present. I could go on and on but there's no point. We have shallow depth in our list. The club knows that & there's nothing that can be done about it at the moment.
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Sicks Bux Sagittarius

Hal 2003-2019


Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Me Island Ome

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:42 am
Post subject: Re: Take a chill pillReply with quote

5 from the wing on debut wrote:
Sicks Bux wrote:
5 from the wing on debut wrote:
hot pie wrote:
Any. Ouch worth there salt new at half time we were done, we took the smart way ant tried other options.
My concern how the million dollar man performed


He is the most over rated player I have ever seen wear the black and white. My opinion is not based on yesterday’s performance, that was just more evidence of the same. He’s a good player, but that’s it.
He can’t kick.
His ruck hitouts are meaningless.
He doesn’t hurt the opposition as whenever he gains possession he is glacier slow with the ball, chips it nowhere leaving the defence ample time to flood back.
He is rarely involved in a chain of possessions resulting in a score.
When he’s in the ruck he doesn’t run forward to work over the less athletic opponent. I assume he is saving himself so he can ruck almost the entire game.
He is one dimensional as he can only play in the ruck. If he goes forward he is like Cox, effectively leaving us one short.
He has all of the attributes to become a very good player and he has time to do so but to date he is all sizzle and no sausage.


He got beaten by his direct opponent for the first time in a long time and we ended up getting thrashed for the first time in a long time. That shows you how much we rely on him.


Really? There's a causal relationship between those two things is there?

We rely on him to neutralise the other teams' ruckman so when the ball hits the grass after his tap outs it's then a 50/50 battle. Watching that occur almost every week and looking at his historical hitouts to advantage numbers confirms that. Nic Nat did things yesterday that Brody has never been able to do. He may learn to do it in time but he's not there now.

Brody was schooled in ruckwork yesterday but I don't see him as being the reason for the loss.I thought that we were thrashed because there were too many players in the team yesterday that are not of AFL standard. Two basic mistakes by Josh Thomas in the last two minutes before half time led to two WC goals. That cracked their confidence. Callum Brown has the knack of getting the ball with space and either being too slow to decide what to do with it or runs into trouble with it. He can't kick and he knows that so he doesn't know what to do. His team mates look at him now and don't give it to him. Wills tries hard but has no skill or match IQ. Noble has pace but it's a lottery where the ball will end up when he kicks. Atu is a development player that has no business playing in an AFL senior game at present. I could go on and on but there's no point. We have shallow depth in our list. The club knows that & there's nothing that can be done about it at the moment.


Grundy wasn't the only reason we lost but he was one of the reasons why we lost. He had a bad game against Nic Nat yesterday but he's had a better season than Nic Nat.
Brody is so consistent that many take his contribution for granted, a bit like people take Jeremy Howe's screamers for granted and then shoot their bolt when someone takes a mark that's half as good as the ones he takes. As for being overrated I doubt it. Every week I hear people like yourself nitpicking him for not being perfect & neglecting to consider him in discussions about our next captain, despite the fact the he's widely considered to be the best ruckman in the comp.
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Adz 



Joined: 18 May 2003
Location: Heidelberg

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:56 am
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If I had told you in March Grundy would not be in the top 3 ruckman in the Comp this year, you would not have believed me.
But he trails Goldy, Gawn and NicNat and English Is snapping at his heals.


Last edited by Adz on Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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