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SteveH67
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Location: Canberra, Australia
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I can see us falling away from here and not playing finals in 2021.
Unless we see massive improvement in the likes of the younger guys like the Brown boys, IQ, Daicos, Stephenson etc, we are heading downwards.
I dont rate Treloar, Adams etc as 'A Graders'
We have too many average players getting games.
Reid, Varcoe, Dunn, Langdon, Thomas can leave.
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Social club member 7342 since 2000. |
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mattmc33 
Joined: 23 May 2008
Location: Sydney
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This team just isn’t at a premiership level. That’s the bottom line. Stack this group up against the likes of Port, Brisbane, Richmond, Geelong, West Coast and maybe even the like of teams on the rise like the Saints and Bulldogs and there isn’t much to get excited about for the next couple of years at least. I think we’ve got the talent to be reasonably competitive, but I don’t see this team at the level of a few other teams. For me, we’re destined to be hovering around that 5-8 mark for a good long while unless they decide to really blow it up and go through a massive rebuild. Would love to be proven wrong, but I’m not seeing it right now. Nathan almost admitted it in last night’s press conference - we’re either close to the mark or a long way off. I suspect deep down he knows it’s the latter.
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I, for one, welcome our new black and white overlords |
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the fuzz
Fuzz loves Bruzz
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
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I think people are forgetting something about this year.
We are missing the advantage we usually get of playing a home game at the MCG in front of 70-80,000.
What if our home game last night was actually a home game. Would have made a bit of a difference I would have thought.
It doesn't mean we would have won, or even been better placed for a flag, but it's a huge disadvantage being in the HUB. Most teams are in the same boat, but the crowd factor for the Pies is huge. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | PyreneesPie wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: |
To be fair, they tried to trade Scharenberg last year but nobody was interested, probably because he was the 12th or 13th defender in selection line for us last year. It’s all very well for people to lament his injuries - and, of course, they won’t have helped - but I remember watching him play VFL before he broke into the senior side and thinking that he seemed too slow for the AFL. Really, how do you get that at pick 6? I don’t know how the guys who make these mistakes remain at the Club. |
Maybe because he was labelled the best school boy player since Wayne Carey?????
It didn't translate at AFL level because of the injuries you happened to mention. |
No, he was hopelessly slow before those injuries. |
He had foot surgery when we drafted him, even before his knee recos, so we never got to see him before injuries slowed him up. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| the fuzz wrote: | I think people are forgetting something about this year.
We are missing the advantage we usually get of playing a home game at the MCG in front of 70-80,000.
What if our home game last night was actually a home game. Would have made a bit of a difference I would have thought.
It doesn't mean we would have won, or even been better placed for a flag, but it's a huge disadvantage being in the HUB. Most teams are in the same boat, but the crowd factor for the Pies is huge. |
i do agree with this, and im hoping the fixing afl does this year means its an all interstate GF!! less pain
i cant see us winning again until we have a genuine bona fida fully paid for FF.
get hungry, get mean, less sentiment, bye bye to the obvious older guys, and to JT, i think we can spare philips if it helps up hook someone. and TBH im not liking the coaching atmosphere, its clinic, footy, sport is about passion. did you guys see bucks every single time the camera was on him? i wanted to smash the screen, im hurting, i want to see the hurt. even if it was a foregone conclusion. i want a statement that off field shit will not be tolerated. stop babying them, they are well paid professionals. and if they cant pass simple skills tests, bye bye. seriously the handballing last night?? all season ive been yelling KICK the $$%^%%$ thing its called FOOTball.
WHE passing off after marking in front of goal?? WTAFI!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| ^ So, like I said, when we first saw Scharenberg after he was drafted, he was hopelessly slow. Why did we waste the number 6 pick on him? It was hardly a speculative one. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | In the cold light of day it’s easy to see how we lost
It’s the same issues all the time when we lose
Our skill errors murder us simple as that
You can’t win games when you butcher the ball as bad as we do at times
Also it’s like the coaches have coached the instinctive play out of us. We look robotic following the same script every time we exit defence
What I don’t understand is why we have changed what we did in our forward line from 2018 that was successful
In 2018 we rotate who started at FF all the time. Some times Stevo some time JDG some times Cox. We had moving parts. Cox was taking there best defender away from goal often. Cox often started at CHF leaving there FB exposed to Stephenson pace or JDG. Then we would have WHE sneak in around the back with checkers when they led up vacating the goals
We were fluid and unpredictable now we are like static and predictable
Overall if we don’t change things against west coast then our season will be over quickly and painfully |
i agree with it all this, except the grundy criticism, we have no forward line. it doesnt work. last week we let cox take 2 defenders and it worked. last night port flooded and we were screwed.
for me though its the highlighted bit. there is no passion. no do it on my own stuff. its like they are afraid of the head master.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^ So, like I said, when we first saw Scharenberg after he was drafted, he was hopelessly slow. Why did we waste the number 6 pick on him? It was hardly a speculative one. |
just more dumb drafting
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | We had 6 players each with less than 10 disposals on the night. Varcoe, Cox, de Goey, Stephenson, Mihocek and Thomas. You cannot win games of football with players who are that poor at finding the ball.
The important thing to appreciate is that, save for de Goey (who only managed this last night) this is not an unusual or isolated occurrence.
Cox has had fewer than 10 disposals in every game he has played in 2020. That’s 9 times he’s turned up and barely had his hands on the ball.
Mihocek has had fewer than 10 disposals in 12 games (of his total of 16) this season.
Stephenson has had fewer than 10 disposals in 4 (of his 12) games this season.
Varcoe has had fewer than 10 disposals in 4 (of his 9) games this season.
Thomas has had fewer than 10 disposals in 5 (of his 12) games this season.
Apart from de Goey, there is actually no one in that lot who can consistently win their own ball or consistently get clear enough to be used as a target.
Ultimately, it screams that in the most important part of the ground we have our consistently least competent players.
This is, of course, reflected in their scoring. De Goey, supposedly the “best” of them, has played 8 games. He has kicked either 0 goals or 1 goal in 6 of those 8 games. If you look at the end of his 2019, he has kicked 0 goals or 1 goal in 9 of his last 11 games. Varcoe has not kicked a goal in his last 8 games. Thomas failed to kick a goal in 9 of his 13 games this season. Mihocek has kicked 0 goals or 1 goal in 10 of his 16 games this season. In his two prior games (our 2 finals in 2019), he did not score a goal, either. Stephenson has kicked 0 goals or 1 goal in 7 of his last 9 games. He has managed just 6 goals in those 9 games. This is a particular concern, since he managed 7 in his first 3 games back, even though he was plainly being managed fitness-wise. Cox has kicked 0 goals or 1 goal in 5 of his 9 games this year.
These players are, of course, not the only ones who have stunk it up in the forward line this year - they just happen to be the ones who were selected to play last night. |
I agree with the ball in hand logic. There aren’t many teams who win games of footy without having touched it.
Buckley’s dilemma all along is that the same group of players above were the ones who got the club to within a kick of a flag. Human nature says you continue to invest in what you know and trust and at the end of 2018 he would have every reason to think the puzzle was coming together nicely.
Whether right or wrong ( and you and I have identical thoughts on this decision ) the club saw Beams as the final piece of the puzzle and went all in on a ball magnet who knows where the goals are.
When that decision came back to haunt us quickly, we were effectively going backwards because what worked in 2018 is no longer good enough in 2020.
The other big problem with our forward line that doesn’t receive enough conversation is that our two key tall planks are simply not natural forwards.
Their knowledge of playing those two key positions is close to zero. Both have had very little experience at leading patterns, handovers when you’re being sucked up the ground, false leads, creating space or reading the play when the game is 100% in front of them.
It’s not their fault, in truth both Miochek and Cox have done well to adapt to their positions but it’s nowhere near enough when other clubs key planks have started as key forwards since their U12 days.
Conversely, they also stand little chance of being effective every week when they come up against natural defenders in well drilled team defences.
It’s going to be an interesting off season. We need to find a natural tall forward quickly and not fall for the trap of trying to reshape a player into something that he isn’t. |
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Mr Miyagi
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
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| If Cox gets more than 10 disposals he’d be kicking 10 goals a game. How many full forwards his size regularly get 20+ disposals? |
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masoncox
masoncox
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
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| Abdul The Bull wrote: | If you ever needed an example of a good game plan with excellent structures look no further than Port's game last night. They were simply everywhere the ball ended up - whether it was from their own team or from our disposals.
That, compared to our structure, demonstrates why we will never achieve success in this regime. For too long we have lamented the lack of a power forward - which may have some merit - however, until we develop a working forward line structure the power forward is academic to our success.
I've lost count of the number of times that a forward running inside 50 looks for an option rather than having a shot at goal! I understand that not every inside 50 entry should be a blast at goal but, as one previous poster noted, it appears that the instinctiveness has been coached out of us.
I am struggling to recall the last time we had a truly dominant forward line? Maybe 2011 - although that was more a team effort with high numbers of individual goal kickers and lots of midfielders contributing to the score line. Geez, even our half-back line was regularly on the scoreboard back then.
The next biggest issue staring at us in our lack of midfield depth. It seems strange to be mentioning that as, on paper, it seems first rate however, take Pendles and Sidey out and we drop off considerably. Couple that with the fact that we get smashed at centre clearances consistently and you can see the deficiencies we have in this area. With Pendles and Sidey both in the twilight of their careers we need to address this deficiency now.
However, I fear that until we make wholesale changes at the highest level we are destined for mediocrity. |
Well said.
Elliot refusing to have a shot inside 50
We don't attack the goals |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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Gee the Chicken Little’s are still up and about. Good for them.
For some reason I want to sit back a bit and see how things unfold next week. However I’m definitely worried that we may have lost our mojo. The whole joint looks like it needs a lift from the current signs of apathy. I have far more questions than answers but this is not the time to make knee jerk decisions. We need a considered approach. Rational decisions need to be made.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Lazza wrote: | Gee the Chicken Little’s are still up and about. Good for them.
For some reason I want to sit back a bit and see how things unfold next week. However I’m definitely worried that we may have lost our mojo. The whole joint looks like it needs a lift from the current signs of apathy. I have far more questions than answers but this is not the time to make knee jerk decisions. We need a considered approach. Rational decisions need to be made. |
Agree and Disagree.
Now is definitely the right time to make a knee-jerk reaction, after all when we’re frustrated, disappointed and pissed off is the best time to make irrational and ill-considered decisions. However you’re right too because now is definitely not the time to make a considered rational decision 😉
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Port Adelaide have been very luck too; they hardly had any injuries this year.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Leggie 
Bucks for PM.
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Location: Perth
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| Lazza wrote: | Gee the Chicken Little’s are still up and about. Good for them.
For some reason I want to sit back a bit and see how things unfold next week. However I’m definitely worried that we may have lost our mojo. The whole joint looks like it needs a lift from the current signs of apathy. I have far more questions than answers but this is not the time to make knee jerk decisions. We need a considered approach. Rational decisions need to be made. |
Absolutely. I'm with you
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Bring Back Tranquilli |
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