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i hate carlton
Joined: 05 May 2014
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Presti35 
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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He should coach
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A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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I will not say a word.
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| He should grow up. |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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I’ll try and remember he is a Collingwood premiership player the leave all comments at rest
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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It was an excellent article in that it chronicled the timeline of the events of Heritier's journey in perhaps a clearer fashion than he himself has ever done. It gives the bigger picture of it all and context.
Changing discrimination in all its forms, both at football clubs and any other societal institutions, sadly does not happen quickly. This is because the environmental upbringing of all its constituents must firstly be changed and this requires succeeding generations to happen.
Take for example, a draftee entering an AFL footy club system for the first time in 2021. That young, immature person may come from a family background that embraces difference, or can't be bothered caring about it or even abhors it. Part of their maturing process then needs to include education about discrimination from various sources and the shaping of their own values about it. These need to then be passed on to their own children. Such a long, difficult process. Sigh.
Really, all football clubs can do is to model respect, empathy and inclusion in every way possible and hope that this will overcome, to some extent, any in-built familial prejudices.
One element of Heritier's experiences that he does not seem to give credence and weight to is the troubling circumstances within his own direct family circle. The article states that he used these as a convenient deflection against the media's pressures, but no where I have ever read about Heritier acknowledging that these may have heightened and exasperated his emotional responses to what was going down with the club. He was a seriously troubled man at the time, by two distinct elements - racism and bigotry, plus family issues. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Very good piece, IHC – thanks for posting. I'm reluctant to give the 'bash Lumumba' squad here material for another round, but they really should read it.
For those who choose not to, long story short: racism at the club and broader AFL in Lumumba's time was extensive and systemic; many of the news stories that presented him as a narcissistic attention seeker (that you may still take as gospel) were careless or opportunistic distortions; and the AFL's "respect and responsibility" programs were always bullshit. This whole saga will in the future look exactly as the Winmar/McAlister/Monkhorst controversies of the '90s seem today – as damning evidence of just how far football culture lags behind mainstream social expectations in terms of basic standards of respect and acceptance, and as a (much too late) cautionary tale about how not to treat another human being.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Ronnie McKeowns boots
Ronnie Mckeowns boots
Joined: 27 Jul 2020
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Soooooo...wasn't there a Club led inquiry into this matter? Have I missed a trick and not seen the final report, which surely must of been released by now?
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"You hate a mean man, a grasping man, a man who wants everything and gives nothing. That’s Collingwood. They are a law unto themselves"
Jack 'Captain Blood' Dyer |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Whatever issues Heritier has, Collingwood didn't cause them. he's been on a self discovery journey for years now, rather than his viewpoint now I'd be interested in his viewpoint in another 10-15 years.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Whatever issues Heritier has, Collingwood didn't cause them. he's been on a self discovery journey for years now, rather than his viewpoint now I'd be interested in his viewpoint in another 10-15 years. |
A wise statement Stui!! He will have hopefully learnt a great deal more about himself with the passage of time - the person/human being he is and why.
He may have come to understand there are many other factors that have shaped him, in addition to his colour. For example, being uprooted to a new country at three years old and having no contact with his father growing up until he was 19. Such a situation would have its effects on any young man, be they white, black or yellow.
That's not to deny at all the impact of the racism he has undoubtedly had to endure. I suspect that Collingwood contributed to that, even if inadvertently and/or unintentionally.
However, so much of how we cope with/respond to the difficulties encountered along the way are determined by the events of our earliest years. Once that is understood, we have greater choice as to how we will respond in the future. The manner in which Heritier responded to racism certainly changed during his time at Collingwood and will probably adapt again, with a deeper understanding of his own personality and evolving maturity.
All that aside, Collingwood and the AFL can obviously improve in the ways they confront and deal with racism and bigotry. |
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dalyc 
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Whatever issues Heritier has, Collingwood didn't cause them. he's been on a self discovery journey for years now, rather than his viewpoint now I'd be interested in his viewpoint in another 10-15 years. |
A wise statement Stui!! He will have hopefully learnt a great deal more about himself with the passage of time - the person/human being he is and why.
He may have come to understand there are many other factors that have shaped him, in addition to his colour. For example, being uprooted to a new country at three years old and having no contact with his father growing up until he was 19. Such a situation would have its effects on any young man, be they white, black or yellow.
That's not to deny at all the impact of the racism he has undoubtedly had to endure. I suspect that Collingwood contributed to that, even if inadvertently and/or unintentionally.
However, so much of how we cope with/respond to the difficulties encountered along the way are determined by the events of our earliest years. Once that is understood, we have greater choice as to how we will respond in the future. The manner in which Heritier responded to racism certainly changed during his time at Collingwood and will probably adapt again, with a deeper understanding of his own personality and evolving maturity.
All that aside, Collingwood and the AFL can obviously improve in the ways they confront and deal with racism and bigotry. |
Yellow people don’t like to be called yellow.
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Four legged animals good, two legged animals better |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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I read the article.
It has changed my opinion of H.L.
I previously thought he was the type of guy who screamed out his own name during orgasm.
Now I realise that he is, in fact, Black Jesus.
Thank you ABC. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | It was an excellent article in that it chronicled the timeline of the events of Heritier's journey in perhaps a clearer fashion than he himself has ever done. It gives the bigger picture of it all and context.
Changing discrimination in all its forms, both at football clubs and any other societal institutions, sadly does not happen quickly. This is because the environmental upbringing of all its constituents must firstly be changed and this requires succeeding generations to happen.
Take for example, a draftee entering an AFL footy club system for the first time in 2021. That young, immature person may come from a family background that embraces difference, or can't be bothered caring about it or even abhors it. Part of their maturing process then needs to include education about discrimination from various sources and the shaping of their own values about it. These need to then be passed on to their own children. Such a long, difficult process. Sigh.
Really, all football clubs can do is to model respect, empathy and inclusion in every way possible and hope that this will overcome, to some extent, any in-built familial prejudices.
One element of Heritier's experiences that he does not seem to give credence and weight to is the troubling circumstances within his own direct family circle. The article states that he used these as a convenient deflection against the media's pressures, but no where I have ever read about Heritier acknowledging that these may have heightened and exasperated his emotional responses to what was going down with the club. He was a seriously troubled man at the time, by two distinct elements - racism and bigotry, plus family issues. |
I agree. His upbringing surely had a huge part, I come from a far less than favourable childhood, and to this day I can see and feel the effects, and I didn’t live in the midst of civil war. However in light of recent events I’m not so sure he stretched the truth as far as I previously believed. I truly am wondering exactly what kind of culture and people are running Collingwood. Disillusioned, disappointed and embarrassed for a start. I have Info I won’t share re Treloar and it seriously makes me wonder on the people skills of those in charge, I feel like a bomber fan, we need a broom through the place. After a year from hell on so many fronts both personal and global, I’d really love my beloved Collingwood to give me something to look forward too. I ain’t seeing it yet.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Ronnie McKeowns boots wrote: | | Soooooo...wasn't there a Club led inquiry into this matter? Have I missed a trick and not seen the final report, which surely must of been released by now? |
Yep, due to hand down its preliminary findings in 2025. 
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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The General 
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Melbourne
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| I wonder if the club is using the Lumumba lawsuit as a way to get pay him a back ended contract and keep it out of the salary cap. If not, perhaps we can in future dealings. Is it too late to arrange for Trelour to suit us to the equivalent of $300,000 per year for 5 years, after his career is finished? |
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