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BBHS
bbhs
Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Location: Bellarine
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Will they being doing reviews of every single club in the competition or only it's most high profile? |
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BEAMER09
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
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Mr Miyagi wrote: | BEAMER09 wrote: | Should've happened atleast 10 years ago... |
Yep. I think with the coach handover, and Lumumba leaving, they honestly thought they could put it behind them and move on. Thing is, when Lumumba spoke in front of everyone, and the nickname stopped (according to McCaffer), they were probably right in thinking it had been dealt with and they could move on. Today, you can’t handle these issues like that. Obviously in retrospect, Lumumba should have been given more support (which clubs do implement these days with a club psychologist). |
Then you look at Ed's subsequent gaffe's in the coming years... _________________ COLLINGW09D |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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I've just read the report. There's no doubt that it was needed and that there are changes that need to occur. it was surprising that whilst there has been a bullying and harassment policy for many years, there was no racism policy at the club until 2020. Previous CEO's have been asleep at the wheel.
My thoughts on the first quick reading of the report are:
1. It's not very well written. It's poorly structured, rambling and repeats itself in many places.
2. Thirty witnesses were said to be spoken to but they are anonymous. This puts enormous weight on the conclusions drawn by the authors. It's a case of "you don't need to know the detail, we do, just trust us that we are right".
3. The report starts out as an investigation into the history of racism at Collingwood and then seeks to make recommendations in relation to that. Along the way the authors seemed to forget what their task actually was. What actually occurs in the report is a focus on indigenous people, as if they are more important than any other group - how they should be recruited to the club in both playing and non playing capacities (apparently we should have an indigenous specific recruiting pipeline) and how the club should have coaching positions and job opportunities for them when they retire. To give the authors some credit, they do throw in the occasional mention of recent African descended people too.
4. Authors of reports like this like saying buzzwords such as "KPI's". KPI's has quite a few mentions. One, in relation to recruiting to make sure that we recruit players that are not racists. Good luck with that. Will the recruits at draft camp be asked to tick a box asking them if they are Nazis?
5. The lack of the authors historical knowledge of football is apparent.There is a timeline of racism at Collingwood with the first allegation being when Syd Jackson was booed during the 70 GF. It is stated by thec authors that this was due to racism - when the fact was that only a couple of weeks before Jackson had lied to the Tribunal about being racially vilified by Lee Adamson, and was therefore cleared of his striking charge and was able to play in the GF. Many of our supporters knew then that Jackson had lied, and a few decades later he admitted it, and it was well publicised. Glaring errors by the authors such as this puts into doubt what I referred to in paragraph 2 above. |
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Mr Miyagi
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
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BEAMER09 wrote: |
Then you look at Ed's subsequent gaffe's in the coming years... |
^ yeah true. But Ed’s not the playing group and doesn’t reflect them, unfair to everyone else to be labeled racist because Ed was. Same as it’s unfair for supporters to be copping abuse, like I am at work or my mate’s kids at school (teacher had to intervene because they were getting accused of being racist simply because they barrack for the pies). I can’t even tell my coworkers to **** off because then I’d be in trouble, I have to sit here and take it. Honestly, I question the whole footy thing and why I support a club who I have no personal links to but get judged solely by my barracking for them to win games. It’s $£$%^%%$ crazy. |
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Mr Miyagi
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
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Re: Jackson lying to get off a striking charge. Not the same issue of lying, but I distinctly remember Winmar saying he was pointing to his guts, it took guts, not the colour of his skin. He still copped awful racial abuse though so it’s semantics. It’s an example of media changing the narrative and not researching deeply enough. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Elwood
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Obviously now the wolves are out. Having read the report I think the criticisms are a bit vague. To say it started with Syd Jackson is a bit rich given that Syd admitted he lied at the tribunal to get off his striking charge. I don't think systematic racism exists at the Collingwood Football Club and if it does it's no more prevalent than any of the other AFL clubs. Now that the report is out we just have to wear it. And we need to implement every one of the recommendations in the report and there will need to be an oversight committee set up at board level to ensure this happens. But for people like Gary Lyon in the media to scream out that Eddie should resign immediately is ridiculous. He's already resigned and it will take the following months for the club to complete the process of finding his replacement. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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I actually think it's a pretty good report. Yeah the language is a bit rambly and clearly written by academics but it hits all the right marks.
Apart from all the recommendations, there's a table of responsibilities for each and implementation timetable.
The opening paragraph on page 29 under the heading "A Final Thought"
Quote: | Every person we spoke to during the process of the review believed that the Collingwood Football Club had to do better into the future than it had done in the past. Whatever cynicism people may have about Collingwood Football Club’s motivations, what cannot be denied that they have, without flinching, subjected themselves to an independent review that has been a challenging exercise in holding up a mirror to the Club’s past in order to do better going forward. That in itself is a step forward in the right direction. |
_________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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BEAMER09
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
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Culture under Ed and Bucks has not been good for a long time...AND that's were it starts... _________________ COLLINGW09D |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Mr Miyagi wrote: | Stevo’s a [deleted] who’s lucky Geoff Walsh convinced North to trade for him. |
so was Swan, its amazing what a decent people manager can turn around. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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BBHS wrote: | Will they being doing reviews of every single club in the competition or only it's most high profile? |
its the one the accusations are being made about, dont deflect, we need to own this
all of us _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Elwood
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stui magpie wrote: | I actually think it's a pretty good report. Yeah the language is a bit rambly and clearly written by academics but it hits all the right marks.
Apart from all the recommendations, there's a table of responsibilities for each and implementation timetable.
The opening paragraph on page 29 under the heading "A Final Thought"
Quote: | Every person we spoke to during the process of the review believed that the Collingwood Football Club had to do better into the future than it had done in the past. Whatever cynicism people may have about Collingwood Football Club’s motivations, what cannot be denied that they have, without flinching, subjected themselves to an independent review that has been a challenging exercise in holding up a mirror to the Club’s past in order to do better going forward. That in itself is a step forward in the right direction. |
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If you pitch a question to someone in an organization to ask can you do better of course the person is going to say yes, we can do better. Does it mean there was racism at the club. Yes or no? |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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stui magpie wrote: | The good thing is, the club arranged this audit on themselves and clearly got a strong detailed report back that hasn't been sanitised . Well done to the club, now to look at implementing things. |
Succintly said Stui.
I hope the club just gets on with learning from its mistakes and omissions and developing a best practice model. I hope it can avoid media spin until the job is done (especially from the President). It's time now to just shut up and get to work. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Mr Miyagi wrote: | BEAMER09 wrote: |
Then you look at Ed's subsequent gaffe's in the coming years... |
^ yeah true. But Ed’s not the playing group and doesn’t reflect them, unfair to everyone else to be labeled racist because Ed was. Same as it’s unfair for supporters to be copping abuse, like I am at work or my mate’s kids at school (teacher had to intervene because they were getting accused of being racist simply because they barrack for the pies). I can’t even tell my coworkers to **** off because then I’d be in trouble, I have to sit here and take it. Honestly, I question the whole footy thing and why I support a club who I have no personal links to but get judged solely by my barracking for them to win games. It’s $�$%^%%$ crazy. |
agree with them, not just because they are right, but because people like that are nort worth getting upset over. i hate bullies, teasing sarcasm, its never just a joke there is always a grain of that how they really feel in there. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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I haven't had time to read the report yet so I will post more later but I want to make three brief comments.
In the early 2000s I thought Mick Malthouse and Eddie had determined to turn the club around on racism, but it was only Mick. Conversation some years ago with a player who was at the club in the 2000s made it clear that Mick was encouraging Leon Davis in the hope that having an indigenous Magpie star might change some supporters attitude. Mick has always been anti-racist and the Eagles were supportive of indigenous players in the nineties and the drug rubbish and poor behaviour mostly happened under Worsfold.
Key players at Collingwood, particularly in the 90s did not understand racism at all. Remember McAlister's comments during the Winmar affair? Tony Shaw as coach, even when it was one of our players (Robbie Ah Mat) being vilified still repeated the outdated rubbish "what is said on the field stays on the field"
I believe at heart Eddie is not racist, but he cannot control his mouth when he is "being one of the boys." In many ways he was a good President but he would have been a better one if he had a day job that allowed him to edit his comments rather than blurt first and regret later. _________________ Born and raised in Black and White |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Mr Miyagi wrote: | Re: Jackson lying to get off a striking charge. Not the same issue of lying, but I distinctly remember Winmar saying he was pointing to his guts, it took guts, not the colour of his skin. He still copped awful racial abuse though so it’s semantics. It’s an example of media changing the narrative and not researching deeply enough. |
This was claimed by some (I think a Herald Sun photo caption, to be specific) in the aftermath, but Winmar to my knowledge has always claimed that he was pointing to the colour of his skin, and reiterated that when this version of events was repeated by Don Scott and Mike Sheahan last year (and this has also been confirmed by the photographer of the famous image, who heard Winmar say "I'm black and proud to be black"). So I think it's time that the "guts" myth, which seems pretty clearly to have been part of a diversionary agenda to downplay the significance of his act and pretend that Aboriginal players aren't hurt by football crowd racism, was put to bed.
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2020/06/26/nicky-winmar-suing-sam-newman-and-co-hosts-attempt-revise-historical-moment _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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