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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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That’s very sad to hear he experienced that. Essential reading for those who still think all this is about Lumumba’s ego, or whatever. What we hear about tends to only be the tip of the iceberg.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Ronnie McKeowns boots
Ronnie Mckeowns boots
Joined: 27 Jul 2020
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Didn't even get a call from the Club, pretty disappointing.
Really galling story to read, must of affected him deeply on and off the feild....this would have been under Malthouses tenure I'd have thought |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Well, plainly some of it was: he’s talking about, amongst other things, what happened when he first arrived at the Club. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| David wrote: |
That’s very sad to hear he experienced that. Essential reading for those who still think all this is about Lumumba’s ego, or whatever. What we hear about tends to only be the tip of the iceberg. |
And they ignore Andrew Krakouer too (whose career was ended by this ****):
"I knew ... that my spirits within me were broken."
“It was at that point I knew that I no longer belonged at Collingwood.” |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| FletchLives wrote: | ...
I could go on...
Worldwide professional sporting teams essentially survive/thrive or die largely on the back of their on-field performance. Racism is not a winning strategy and there is no incentives in place for it.
... |
This is a very weak argument. If it were true, there would never ever have been racism in any pro sporting league in the world. Is that what you believe?
And you could make the same very weak argument about the corporate world or society at large. Do you believe there's no racism in the corporate world? |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| A great article. Thanks for the post. |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Well, plainly some of it was: he’s talking about, amongst other things, what happened when he first arrived at the Club. |
The years at Collingwood were exactly the same for Leon and Mick - 2000 to 2011, so not just "some of it", but all of it. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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Whether or not an individual fully accepts and endorses what another individual is saying, depends not only on the words that are said, but how they are said and the possible array of motives behind the words. Other factors come into play too, such as the histories and personalities of the individuals. That is simply the nature of human interaction and communication.
Consequently, I understand and appreciate why some of us have carefully considered Heritier's words and not immediately and instantly taken them at full face value, even though they are about such a serious issue as racism within Collingwood.
On the other hand, I entirely believe Leon Davis's words without reserve. I am profoundly upset that he was treated in such a debilitating manner and hope he receives reparation and healing going forward. |
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Bucks5 
Nicky D - Parting the red sea
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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| K wrote: | | FletchLives wrote: | ...
I could go on...
Worldwide professional sporting teams essentially survive/thrive or die largely on the back of their on-field performance. Racism is not a winning strategy and there is no incentives in place for it.
... |
This is a very weak argument. If it were true, there would never ever have been racism in any pro sporting league in the world. Is that what you believe?
And you could make the same very weak argument about the corporate world or society at large. Do you believe there's no racism in the corporate world? |
The trouble is, FletchLives, players in many sports believe racism is a winning strategy or rather sledging your opponents using race or sexuality or referring to their families. Tony Shaw said as much in 1991. The story of sledges used by the Australian Cricket team last century are legend. I know less about sledging in Rugby League, Basketball and Soccer but I bet it existed and I'll bet some of it was racist.
_________________
Born and raised in Black and White |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Well, plainly some of it was: he’s talking about, amongst other things, what happened when he first arrived at the Club. |
The years at Collingwood were exactly the same for Leon and Mick - 2000 to 2011, so not just "some of it", but all of it. |
That’s quite correct. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| slangman wrote: |
The old adage that the truth lies somewhere in the middle is applicable to this situation as much as any other. |
Lots of life experience tells me that this is so, slangman.  |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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And out and out lies will be told inm an effort to get in the limelight.. The authors are dining out on this because they know full well that no other club of any sport will ask them (ie pay them) to do anything like this again.
_________________
Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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FletchLives
Joined: 15 Aug 2019
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Thanks K and Dr Pie
The section I wrote you have quoted is a statement not an argument. I didn't deny the presence of racism - it is clearly ubiquitous ie present in all facets of life, including sports.
Are you making a counter statement that in the pursuit of winning, racism is a successful strategy and therefore incentive exists?
I was referencing more broadly an organisation/team and its incentives. ie only selecting players of a certain race(s). Or treating people of a certain race differentially (ie worse) in the team environment. I'm not saying this hasn't and doesn't occur - I'm saying it doesn't help winning and an organisation if it is focussed on winning is hindered by such a strategy.
I agree that many believe sledging to be helpful. Apart from anecdotes has there been any study or data that proves that it is successful? We've had very successful cricket teams that sledged and less successful ones that sledged. I doubt that if you are racially abusing opposition players whilst having people of the same race on your own team that it would be a good strategy. It sounds idiotic - clearly it happens and has happened.
There are countless examples of people using racial slurs directed at them to enhance their performance (see Winmar and McAdam).
I think we would all agree that racism exists, is abhorrent and self-defeating.
I am sorry if my post was unclear in that regard. |
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