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General discussion about world racism

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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:39 pm
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After reading the comments above I thought perhaps my memory was wrong about when I first heard the term blackface. The first article that came up when I tried to research it was an article from 2009 immediately below, which was in response to the Hey hey program. Interestingly, Julia Gillard,who was then DPM, didn't think that there was a problem with what had occurred. I am still of the opinion that the term wasn't known in mainstream white suburban Australia until then.

I also recall that there was a Golliwog store at Bright. That was after 2000, maybe up to about 2010, but I can't recall exactly when or when it was that it closed.

https://overland.org.au/previous-issues/issue-199/feature-maxine-clarke/
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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:54 pm
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My last piece of research.

https://www.smh.com.au/culture/tv-and-radio/from-the-archives-1999-melbourne-would-be-boring-without-him-20200619-p554g8.html

That's a link to a Sydney Morning Herald article on Sam Newman in 1999 after the Winmar blackface incident. Note that it isn't referred in the article as "blackface". It is either "black face" or "painted face".
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:31 pm
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^ Well, spaced or unspaced probably doesn’t make a lot of difference, but keep in mind that a lot of newspaper articles from before around 2005 or so aren’t readily available online (at least, not directly through a Google search; you may have more luck checking out Trove on the National Library, though the titles there only go up to a certain date). All I know is that Newman’s stunt did cause an immediate reaction and a fair bit of consternation, and that wouldn’t have happened if there was no concept of such things being offensive.

Here’s another case worth reading up on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Billy_Cokebottle

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Pi Gemini



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:06 pm
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This is probably the first actual legal case involving blackface in Australia.

http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/cth/FMCA/2004/336.html

Its 2003/4 involving Louis Beers, AKA Billy coke-bottle.

The case is dismissed on the basis that its viewed as the use of theatrical makeup for artistic purposes rather than an act of overt racial vilification.

As far as I can tell this is the point at which blackface becomes an actual legal issue in Australia rather than a vague 'its a just bad idea' that I recall in the mid 1980's and beyond.

As for Canada with its close proximity to the US and its cultural an social influences, general objections to blackface were well known long before 2001, especially if you were a teacher at an expensive school.

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:05 pm
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I think its legality is not really a point of contention, to be honest. I can’t recall anyone actually being prosecuted over it, either in the US or in a Commonwealth country, and even under newer racial vilification laws I don’t think there’s anything that specifically forbids it.
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roar 



Joined: 01 Sep 2004


PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:23 am
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TBPH, I don't really understand why a performer dressing up as some other ethnicity is seen as racist.
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stui magpie Gemini

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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:06 am
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roar wrote:
TBPH, I don't really understand why a performer dressing up as some other ethnicity is seen as racist.


In many cases, neither do I, but if the people of that ethnicity feel it is, I'm not arguing.

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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:47 am
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"The people" may only be one or two.
In that Coke Bottle case the evidence was that indigenous people attended the shows and laughed, but the applicant took exception.
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David Libra

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:57 am
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Well there's certainly a spectrum – if the point is mockery or caricature, as was the case in the days of the old minstrel shows, then it's not hard to see why people of that background would see it as demeaning and see it for what it is, which is basically a racist joke (as the King Billy Coke Bottle routine clearly was, regardless of whether a given Aboriginal audience member enjoyed it).

It gets a bit trickier when you get into the realm of blackface played straight (e.g. Laurence Olivier's interpretation of Othello), but there are a number of pretty understandable reasons why people take issue with that as well, whether it be because of the broader cultural connotations of blackface, because it still unavoidably comes across as caricature even if seriously intended, or simply because it's unnecessarily taking work away from non-white actors.

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5 from the wing on debut 



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:13 pm
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Robert Downey won some sort of film award in Hollywood in 2009 (don't know what, it's not my interest) for playing a black character in Tropic Thunder. So, sometimes, it's OK. And, sometimes it's not. I suppose it depends on what the person that tweets first says about it, which political party they are known to support, etc.
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David Libra

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:29 pm
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He was nominated for a Best Supporting Actor Oscar for it, yeah. I guess that was kind of meta in that the entire joke was that his character was clueless enough to do blackface for a film role (and hence we see him do it for the film within the film). But even something like that would be deemed unacceptable now, particularly in the wake of what happened last year with old comedy series episodes on streaming platforms.
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roar 



Joined: 01 Sep 2004


PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:37 pm
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Have they cancelled Kath & Kim, yet?
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David Libra

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:38 pm
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I think that happened around 14 years ago, Roar. Wink
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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:59 pm
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maybe we can revive Kingswood Country Razz
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5 from the wing on debut 



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:15 pm
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I am a bad parent.
Years ago my primary school aged sons watched my DVD of Blazing Saddles.
Then all of their mates wanted to watch it too.
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