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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | People are so precious. Three guys were having a joke between themselves. It was never meant for Andrew Krakouer and it's sad that Andrew overheard them, but the point is it was never directed at him and people say silly things all the time. Footballers are adolescents and say the wrong thing. If it was the captain, vice captain or coach it would be different. Unfortunately we're now living in a society that is itching to condemn the slightest thing that anybody says. People need to harden up because at some point in all our lives we face tragedy, financial hardships, loss of friendships, broken romances, adversities in the workplaces and many setbacks. We either face it all head on or we blame others for the mistakes we make and use it as an excuse to fail. |
if it wasnt meant for him they would not have said it within his hearing, if they cared about him they would not have walked away when he confronted him, you are as bad as they are, down playing it making excuses, its not precious its hurt feelings. if it was a captain vice captain it would be different? we dont know who it was, and it would not be different
how about trying this: dont tell racist 'jokes" like all personal jokes there is at least a hint of true feeling in there, maybe not be an arsehole and be sensitive to the feelings of others, we all have a pressure point, and if we dont, well we are a narcissist, which are you? what gets you going? harden up? why should anyone harden up against a personal slight? and thats exactly what a racist joke is to a person of a different race than you.
how about we just try to be kind to each other? respectful? or maybe at the lowest level which is where you are talking from, we could just not be an arsehole.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | think positive wrote: |
im at a loss for words, i know they are dumb footballers, not rhodes scholars etc, but $�$%^%%$ hell, he had the guts to confront them and 2 walk away and the other argues his point? what the **** kind of people were/are managing this club? |
It's mind-boggling isn't it TP. This was in 2012 too, not that long ago, but well into the 21st century would you believe. 
| Quote: | | im just so close to done with the AFL, collingwood, and sadly, some of the people here. |
I've felt that way through much of the off-season, starting way back with the treatment of Treloar. Totally demoralized because of the actions of the club I love (d) and believed in, combined with the complete corporatization of the game I love and the importance of the almighty dollar.
It took the kindness of a member here who sent me a link to watch the practice match that prevented me from deserting the ship altogether
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cheers mate, any time.
( you just made me get teary, it was nothing, i cant believe no one else had. i just dont understand the world today, cheers xx)
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| think positive wrote: | | MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | People are so precious. Three guys were having a joke between themselves. It was never meant for Andrew Krakouer and it's sad that Andrew overheard them, but the point is it was never directed at him and people say silly things all the time. Footballers are adolescents and say the wrong thing. If it was the captain, vice captain or coach it would be different. Unfortunately we're now living in a society that is itching to condemn the slightest thing that anybody says. People need to harden up because at some point in all our lives we face tragedy, financial hardships, loss of friendships, broken romances, adversities in the workplaces and many setbacks. We either face it all head on or we blame others for the mistakes we make and use it as an excuse to fail. |
if it wasnt meant for him they would not have said it within his hearing, if they cared about him they would not have walked away when he confronted him, you are as bad as they are, down playing it making excuses, its not precious its hurt feelings. if it was a captain vice captain it would be different? we dont know who it was, and it would not be different
how about trying this: dont tell racist 'jokes" like all personal jokes there is at least a hint of true feeling in there, maybe not be an arsehole and be sensitive to the feelings of others, we all have a pressure point, and if we dont, well we are a narcissist, which are you? what gets you going? harden up? why should anyone harden up against a personal slight? and thats exactly what a racist joke is to a person of a different race than you.
how about we just try to be kind to each other? respectful? or maybe at the lowest level which is where you are talking from, we could just not be an arsehole. |
Yes, in an ideal world we'd all be lovey dovey and not tell racist jokes but the world isn't ideal and the footballers we worship are often immature and many haven't grown up outside a football field. Also why don't you give the three who told the joke the benefit of the doubt that they weren't aware that Andrew was in the vicinity of hearing what they said. Why is it we believe the worst in people and not the best? |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | People are so precious. Three guys were having a joke between themselves. It was never meant for Andrew Krakouer and it's sad that Andrew overheard them, but the point is it was never directed at him and people say silly things all the time. Footballers are adolescents |
Yep, I can see your point with this, but it was more so the arrogance, ignorance (or both) of the player who felt they had to make Krak see the misplaced humour of the joke!! (BTW, I knew fifty years ago that "boong" was a despicable word and there was nothing funny about it). Still, as you say, some footballers are obviously still juveniles in many respects, until they learn better.
The biggest issue (and the one that led to the club being found to be guilty of systemic racism) was that there no defined pathway for the likes of Lumumba, Krak and Leon to have their hurtful experiences expressed and validated and then for the club to use these as educational opportunities to promote a less discriminatory work place. Nothing... their objections just disappeared into the ether, which was possibly just as demoralizing for them than the initial insult. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| You just hit the nail on the head mate. Up until this point there was no redress to incidents like this that happened. Now the club has instituted action so that racism is stamped out altogether at the Collingwood Football Club. Any indigenous player that overhears anything or has anything happen to them can take it to a higher level and have it addressed without recriminations to the player who has taken the complaint. This should be about dealing with the future, not about rehashing the past. |
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matrix10
Joined: 17 May 2009
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Bingo.
It is truly a subject with no right or wrong answers- when looking in the rear view mirror.
*why didn't Leon, Krak, H report these incidents at the time?
- because most are now aware that victims often do not report for fear of reprisal
->which leads to the question- what is the club/person/business to do when they are not made aware of an issue?
They cannot address anything they are not aware of.
The report and it's recommendations will pave a clear path for those who suffer discrimination to seek redress.
In theory it is fantastic- yet, it is highly probable that many victims of discrimination will still feel uncomfortable reporting.
I imagine it especially hard for Krak- given the club threw him a lifeline- to be perceived as 'rocking the boat'
Personally, I feel too many are too quick to judge- both sides- and a little thing that seems to have vanished from society needs to be reintroduced- forgiveness.
We all stuff up- call it out- educate- forgive and move forward together |
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Ronnie McKeowns boots
Ronnie Mckeowns boots
Joined: 27 Jul 2020
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| npalm wrote: | Hey Monk, I'm also a [snip] who grew up in the 60's and 70's. A [snip] who , sadly, told racist jokes in the distant past.
Unless they've been living under a rock, people of our age have been exposed to plenty of information since the 60's to enable them to understand that an indigenous person's experience in this country is vastly different to their own.
I can't pretend to understand what it's like to be in Andrew Krakour's shoes but I can easily accept him at his word when he states that overhearing the racist joke was extremely hurtful. I don't understand why you can't.
I know a few blokes our age that have probably responded the same way to this report that you have. In their cases I know them and I know that it's due to their lack of empathy and\or their inability to admit that their casual racism is wrong. |
Great post! |
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Ronnie McKeowns boots
Ronnie Mckeowns boots
Joined: 27 Jul 2020
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | People are so precious. Three guys were having a joke between themselves. It was never meant for Andrew Krakouer and it's sad that Andrew overheard them, but the point is it was never directed at him and people say silly things all the time. Footballers are adolescents |
The biggest issue (and the one that led to the club being found to be guilty of systemic racism) was that there no defined pathway for the likes of Lumumba, Krak and Leon to have their hurtful experiences expressed and validated and then for the club to use these as educational opportunities to promote a less discriminatory work place. Nothing... their objections just disappeared into the ether, which was possibly just as demoralizing for them than the initial insult. |
This is exactly the point! The fact it happened is abhorrent, and I can't actually believe some on here are putting it down to 'banter' and trivializing Kraks experience...but worse is the fact their were no systems in place to resolve these issues, it just beggars belief from a Club that considers itself the biggest in the land. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| matrix10 wrote: |
The report and it's recommendations will pave a clear path for those who suffer discrimination to seek redress.
In theory it is fantastic- yet, it is highly probable that many victims of discrimination will still feel uncomfortable reporting.
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Yep, a lot of careful thought needs to go into this upcoming policy and its procedures. The ideal would be that both the person who raises the complaint and the person(s) whom it is raised against come out of it with a better understanding of the other, with no lasting ill feelings or negative repercussions. Mediation, education and mutual consideration need to be the top priorities (if that's possible). |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | People are so precious. Three guys were having a joke between themselves. It was never meant for Andrew Krakouer and it's sad that Andrew overheard them, but the point is it was never directed at him and people say silly things all the time. Footballers are adolescents and say the wrong thing. If it was the captain, vice captain or coach it would be different. Unfortunately we're now living in a society that is itching to condemn the slightest thing that anybody says. People need to harden up because at some point in all our lives we face tragedy, financial hardships, loss of friendships, broken romances, adversities in the workplaces and many setbacks. We either face it all head on or we blame others for the mistakes we make and use it as an excuse to fail. |
if it wasnt meant for him they would not have said it within his hearing, if they cared about him they would not have walked away when he confronted him, you are as bad as they are, down playing it making excuses, its not precious its hurt feelings. if it was a captain vice captain it would be different? we dont know who it was, and it would not be different
how about trying this: dont tell racist 'jokes" like all personal jokes there is at least a hint of true feeling in there, maybe not be an arsehole and be sensitive to the feelings of others, we all have a pressure point, and if we dont, well we are a narcissist, which are you? what gets you going? harden up? why should anyone harden up against a personal slight? and thats exactly what a racist joke is to a person of a different race than you.
how about we just try to be kind to each other? respectful? or maybe at the lowest level which is where you are talking from, we could just not be an arsehole. |
Yes, in an ideal world we'd all be lovey dovey and not tell racist jokes but the world isn't ideal and the footballers we worship are often immature and many haven't grown up outside a football field. Also why don't you give the three who told the joke the benefit of the doubt that they weren't aware that Andrew was in the vicinity of hearing what they said. Why is it we believe the worst in people and not the best? |
its not about being lovey dovey, its about being a decent human being, give the three the benefit of the doubt??? seriously??? unless they are in a room where they can see every inch and every thing in it shouldnt they wonder if they are alone? and even so they are earning grown up coin that can tell grown up jokes, ones that do not adversely effect anyone else. why dont i believe the best in people? these people were at their worst, well hopefully!
my problem has always been i expect the best in people, and ive been so often sorely disappointed.
just because your missus isnt standing next to you doesnt mean you should share your sex life with your mates, its called common decency.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Post subject: | |
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | matrix10 wrote: |
The report and it's recommendations will pave a clear path for those who suffer discrimination to seek redress.
In theory it is fantastic- yet, it is highly probable that many victims of discrimination will still feel uncomfortable reporting.
|
Yep, a lot of careful thought needs to go into this upcoming policy and its procedures. The ideal would be that both the person who raises the complaint and the person(s) whom it is raised against come out of it with a better understanding of the other, with no lasting ill feelings or negative repercussions. Mediation, education and mutual consideration need to be the top priorities (if that's possible). |
with attitudes like some of the ones here, with a coach who made a point of asking a player sticking up for others ' is this alright with you" about a gay "joke' or "nickname" for a haircut, i dont think id be that brave either.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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slangman
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
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| LaurieHolden wrote: | Back in 2011, Mick Malthouse spoke at a Penfolds lunch at Brisbanes home of Rugby, Ballymore. I always thought it strange Mick flew up during the week of the Qualifying Final.
Queensland Rugby stalwart and Hall of Famer Dick Marks delivered a dated and strained introduction to Malthouse, containing old stories and racist jokes that if it did belong to any era, was long past.
Mick, clearly unimpressed, on opening said "I don't care if a player is black, brown or brindle. If he shows commitment and earns his spot, I'll welcome that player into my side"
The room, fully of Rugby die-hards went very quiet. They could clearly sense Malthouse didn't suffer fools nor the tone of the introduction and the audience clearly was embarrased, particularly by the comments post the event. |
The most staggering thing in this whole debate is that Malthouse hasn’t been asked by the media for his opinion/thoughts on what went on from a racism and culture perspective that occurred during his tenure as senior coach.
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| think positive wrote: | its not about being lovey dovey, its about being a decent human being, give the three the benefit of the doubt??? seriously??? unless they are in a room where they can see every inch and every thing in it shouldnt they wonder if they are alone? and even so they are earning grown up coin that can tell grown up jokes, ones that do not adversely effect anyone else. why dont i believe the best in people? these people were at their worst, well hopefully!
my problem has always been i expect the best in people, and ive been so often sorely disappointed.
just because your missus isnt standing next to you doesnt mean you should share your sex life with your mates, its called common decency. |
Can you share if your sex life doesn't involve your missus?
Asking for a friend. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Mate the wankers on here are always doing that
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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maurs64
Joined: 07 Jan 2014
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What I'd like to see is something from Varcoe & Wells, our most recent indigenous players. I'm over the past racist remarks. What is the club like today, now???
I believe the media is leading a witch-hunt against Collingwood by approaching every indigenous player that ever played for us and IF they have a story worth a headline they'll run with it. If they don't we'll never hear about it. The media is now only interested in showing Collingwood as a racist club, forever. I don't expect feel good stories about an indigenous player at Collingwood who was embraced by the club and didn't suffer any racism, do you? |
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