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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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I cannot and will not believe that we are leading the pack in racism
For God sake every sport club in Australia and many other nations it goes on
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| maurs64 wrote: | What I'd like to see is something from Varcoe & Wells, our most recent indigenous players. I'm over the past racist remarks. What is the club like today, now???
I believe the media is leading a witch-hunt against Collingwood by approaching every indigenous player that ever played for us and IF they have a story worth a headline they'll run with it. If they don't we'll never hear about it. The media is now only interested in showing Collingwood as a racist club, forever. I don't expect feel good stories about an indigenous player at Collingwood who was embraced by the club and didn't suffer any racism, do you? |
Google it, they gave both chimed in,
Varcoe had me in tears listening to him on I’m a celebrity get me out of here, he said he would never take his kids to the footy. Yes I’m aware he played at feeling too, and his comments sound as if he meant over the fence.
They were all embraced by the club, sadly that means copping the good old fashioned Aussie ribbing -bad luck if your offended.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| BazBoy wrote: | I cannot and will not believe that we are leading the pack in racism
For God sake every sport club in Australia and many other nations it goes on |
So what?
Maybe we can do better then look down at others if you feel the need
It doesn’t matter what others are doing, you don’t not do something because you got caught, you change your habits because they are wrong
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Presti35 
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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It's very tricky this one. And the reporting seems vague.
I'd ask Andrew if he's ever made a comment of a joke about a white person before. Sure in the change rooms at the club is not the place for it, especially when your'e supposed to be in a team and professional environment. It's just unrealistic to think that no one on this planet has made some kind of racial jibe in their life.
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A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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magpieazza
magpieazza
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Griffith N.S.W
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I would be prepared to say that we have pointed the dial in the right direction however its going to take time to get to the point of a reasonably equal society.
My father and grandfather were miners in Broken Hill and there were alot of punch ups at the 50 odd pubs after work due to them being called "[snip]" "grill" "greaseball" etc etc etc, it happened on a daily...
Now there is a different landscape whereby there alot of keyboard warriors who can be the epitome of racist hatred.
I was subjected to racism whereby two white Aussie fellas I worked with at a club talked to eachother and said "How did your day go " as in "dago". I confronted them there and then and then went about my business. It hurt me and even though it happened about 20 years ago I still remember the moment clear as yesterday.
Now this type of targeted casual racism doesnt happen often at all and I do actually joke about how good I am at cooking pasta simply on the basis I am Italian by heritage. Lots of other stereo typical moments happen on a frequent occurrence but thats because I laugh at myself and I can easily identify the moments that are funny and the moments that arent.
I actually do believe some people get precious and do need to have some levity but it is easily identifiable when its not a light hearted dig. So it can be as the saying goes "in the eyes of the beholder".
At the end of the day nobody knows the journey anyone else has been through, so always be kind.
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Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero. |
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Mr Miyagi
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
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| BazBoy wrote: | I cannot and will not believe that we are leading the pack in racism
For God sake every sport club in Australia and many other nations it goes on |
We’re not. I personally know what’s gone on at a couple of other clubs, but they don’t sell newspapers like Collingwood does (and they don’t have presidents like Eddie and a long line of people stretching to the sun to have a pot shot at us). Wellingham’s mum said it happened at West Coast for example. Some clubs have a stronger aboriginal presence, but it still goes on there. Collingwood’s in the news for it though and it’s emboldened players to speak out about it, although Leon and Krak didn’t want to go too deep into details and make a campaign of it like Lumumba. You can imagine how hard it is to be the first one to speak up at West Coast for example |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Presti35 wrote: | It's very tricky this one. And the reporting seems vague.
I'd ask Andrew if he's ever made a comment of a joke about a white person before. Sure in the change rooms at the club is not the place for it, especially when your'e supposed to be in a team and professional environment. It's just unrealistic to think that no one on this planet has made some kind of racial jibe in their life. |
Whether or not it's realistic, I think it is reasonable to say that it should be unacceptable in the workplace. And there are racial jibes and then there are racial jibes; as PyreneesPie said above, this particular word was already seen as pretty repellent fifty years ago – arguably the closest Australia has to the n-word for a racial slur specifically directed at Aboriginal people – and the accompanying "explanation" is even more vile, the joke basically being that Indigenous people being indiscriminately slaughtered (something that actually used to happen) is funny.
Even accounting for the significant racial power differentials in society, exacerbated by occurring within a white-dominated environment where an Aboriginal player is already an outsider, I can't imagine any "anti-white" joke that would have a remotely similar effect. I suspect neither you nor I have ever felt the way Krakouer felt in that moment on account of the colour of our skin. Knowing that, I think it's a good opportunity to listen to his testimony humbly and think about how being aware of those dynamics might be used to change things for the better.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| maurs64 wrote: | What I'd like to see is something from Varcoe & Wells, our most recent indigenous players. I'm over the past racist remarks. What is the club like today, now???
I believe the media is leading a witch-hunt against Collingwood by approaching every indigenous player that ever played for us and IF they have a story worth a headline they'll run with it. If they don't we'll never hear about it. The media is now only interested in showing Collingwood as a racist club, forever. I don't expect feel good stories about an indigenous player at Collingwood who was embraced by the club and didn't suffer any racism, do you? |
Varcoe may have talked about racist comments coming from over the fence but he’s probably a bit reticent to talk about the players being racist as he knows how easy it will be for the anti white, racist comments that he posted to be brought up again. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | | Presti35 wrote: | It's very tricky this one. And the reporting seems vague.
I'd ask Andrew if he's ever made a comment of a joke about a white person before. Sure in the change rooms at the club is not the place for it, especially when your'e supposed to be in a team and professional environment. It's just unrealistic to think that no one on this planet has made some kind of racial jibe in their life. |
Whether or not it's realistic, I think it is reasonable to say that it should be unacceptable in the workplace. And there are racial jibes and then there are racial jibes; as PyreneesPie said above, this particular word was already seen as pretty repellent fifty years ago – arguably the closest Australia has to the n-word for a racial slur specifically directed at Aboriginal people – and the accompanying "explanation" is even more vile, the joke basically being that Indigenous people being indiscriminately slaughtered (something that actually used to happen) is funny.
Even accounting for the significant racial power differentials in society, exacerbated by occurring within a white-dominated environment where an Aboriginal player is already an outsider, I can't imagine any "anti-white" joke that would have a remotely similar effect. I suspect neither you nor I have ever felt the way Krakouer felt in that moment on account of the colour of our skin. Knowing that, I think it's a good opportunity to listen to his testimony humbly and think about how being aware of those dynamics might be used to change things for the better. |
Yep. Well said David.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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Name the players.
Sorry, I just don't understand the "protect the three players privacy" mentality by throwing the whole club under the bus. name them. If they admit it they should own it and demonstrate remorse.
If they didn't .........well they have every right to call for a full investigation
I mean calling for people to be sacked without knowing the details is just rubbish.
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"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Presti35 wrote: | It's very tricky this one. And the reporting seems vague.
I'd ask Andrew if he's ever made a comment of a joke about a white person before. Sure in the change rooms at the club is not the place for it, especially when your'e supposed to be in a team and professional environment. It's just unrealistic to think that no one on this planet has made some kind of racial jibe in their life. |
nothing tricky here, just disgusting behaviour:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2021-collingwood-racism-report-andrew-krakouer-calls-out-magpies-racial-slur-interview/news-story/bc050626863feae2c78dee5a051928b0
can you imagine being a minority in a locker room full of idiot testosterone? it took a lot of guts to confront it, and even more to accept the apology he never got and play alongside those dickheads again.
my dad is a total bastard moron, but the one thing he got right was just because everyone else is doing doesnt mean you should.
what would be good would be the players naming themselves and apologising.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| magpieazza wrote: | I would be prepared to say that we have pointed the dial in the right direction however its going to take time to get to the point of a reasonably equal society.
My father and grandfather were miners in Broken Hill and there were alot of punch ups at the 50 odd pubs after work due to them being called "[snip]" "grill" "greaseball" etc etc etc, it happened on a daily...
Now there is a different landscape whereby there alot of keyboard warriors who can be the epitome of racist hatred.
I was subjected to racism whereby two white Aussie fellas I worked with at a club talked to each other and said "How did your day go " as in "dago". I confronted them there and then and then went about my business. It hurt me and even though it happened about 20 years ago I still remember the moment clear as yesterday. and that doesnt make you precious it makes you human
Now this type of targeted casual racism doesnt happen often at all and I do actually joke about how good I am at cooking pasta simply on the basis I am Italian by heritage. Lots of other stereo typical moments happen on a frequent occurrence but thats because I laugh at myself and I can easily identify the moments that are funny and the moments that arent.
I actually do believe some people get precious and do need to have some levity but it is easily identifiable when its not a light hearted dig. So it can be as the saying goes "in the eyes of the beholder".
- i cop this when i get "over sensitive" about people having a crack at my hearing loss, everyone should try it sometime, turn the sound off in a really important discussion, or at a fun gathering. im not precious, but that part of me is fragile due to continual, never ending hits.
At the end of the day nobody knows the journey anyone else has been through, so always be kind.
this, i dont get why its so hard |
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| MJ23 wrote: | Name the players.
Sorry, I just don't understand the "protect the three players privacy" mentality by throwing the whole club under the bus. name them. If they admit it they should own it and demonstrate remorse.
If they didn't .........well they have every right to call for a full investigation
I mean calling for people to be sacked without knowing the details is just rubbish. |
But who's throwing the club under the bus? Anyone reading Krakouer's account will understand perfectly well that this was about what those individuals (partially because of broader cultural norms, partially because of what was normalised within the club environment) felt was okay in that moment, and that the club administration wasn't directly involved because he chose not to pursue it (though, equally, that they hadn't created an environment in which he felt he could). So there's no ambiguity to this story at all, and no need to drag the players out to be publicly shamed – unless you think that doing so will somehow cleanse the club of any association with the racism that occurred within its walls. Krakouer clearly doesn't think there's any point in doing that, and probably recognises that individualising the problem won't ultimately serve structural change. And he has a right to approach talking about his experience in that way.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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neil 
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland
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What has pissed me off isnt the casual racism or who said what. It is not the fact that Collingwood has a racist past as does Australia. It is the fact that the Collingwood football club has not had a system in place to deal with racism.
This is not the 1970's when casual racism in the workplace was still the norm it is the 21 century. Every place I have worked in the last 20 years has had a no harassment policy with established procedures.
That Collingwood did not bring one into being until 2019 shows the size of the problem.
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Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| David wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | Name the players.
Sorry, I just don't understand the "protect the three players privacy" mentality by throwing the whole club under the bus. name them. If they admit it they should own it and demonstrate remorse.
If they didn't .........well they have every right to call for a full investigation
I mean calling for people to be sacked without knowing the details is just rubbish. |
But who's throwing the club under the bus? Anyone reading Krakouer's account will understand perfectly well that this was about what those individuals (partially because of broader cultural norms, partially because of what was normalised within the club environment) felt was okay in that moment, and that the club administration wasn't directly involved because he chose not to pursue it (though, equally, that they hadn't created an environment in which he felt he could). So there's no ambiguity to this story at all, and no need to drag the players out to be publicly shamed – unless you think that doing so will somehow cleanse the club of any association with the racism that occurred within its walls. Krakouer clearly doesn't think there's any point in doing that, and probably recognises that individualising the problem won't ultimately serve structural change. And he has a right to approach talking about his experience in that way. |
No, when players aren't named, the club's name is tarnished. If the players were named, we would be talking about those players and their conduct and whether they are remorseful. Look at Michael Long and Damien Monkhorst. That was a Monkhorst, Long issue, not a Collingwood one. The young girl who called Goodes an Ape. We have an identity to discuss, not say this is a Collingwood supporter problem.
Why do these players deserve anonymity? This happened in 2012. |
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