Israeli–Palestinian conflict

[think positive]

[stui magpie]

^

Hamas certainly didn't and as for Israel, realistically, once you're captured you're considered Dead Unless.

[David]

The hostages are and always were leverage, and they can only be used as leverage while they’re alive. They’re obviously Hamas’s primary bargaining chip right now, so I assume they are invested in keeping them alive and that the vast majority who’ve died were killed by IDF bombs.

[Magpietothemax]

^No doubt, the hostages are starving, along with the rest of the population in Gaza. Israel is responsible for the deaths of the hostages, along with the deaths of at least 40 000 Palestinians (when those missing/buried under rubble) are included.

[think positive]

im not sure im convinced Hamas took em any more!
the response is so over the top it just seams a little too convenient.

[What'sinaname]

^ but Hamas did attack Israel resulting in 1,200 deaths, the same Hamas who don't believe in the State of Israel.

So let's not pretend that they are blameless on all of this.

[stui magpie]

^

That's going to be the biggest impediment to what everyone in the world seems to want, except the Palestinians and Israelis, a 2 state solution.

Politicians everywhere are jabbering about a 2 state solution, which to be fair is the most obvious suitable outcome. The problem is, Israelis don't want a hostile neighbour state and the Palestinians don't want Israel to exist, period.

So unless the USA grows a set of big hairy balls and enables the UN to do what needs to be done, they're stuck in the doom spiral.

[David]

I think that’s a bit of an oversimplistic read. The Palestinian Authority are in charge of the West Bank – which obviously hasn’t been getting as much publicity of late but is still the bigger and more populated of the occupied territories – and they don’t oppose Israel’s existence, or at the very least are willing to tolerate them. But what they do want is for the illegal settlements to stop, and that’s ultimately the biggest barrier to a two-state solution, which is precisely the reason why Netanyahu has been so keen to support more and more settlements and to sideline the PA as much as possible. The settlements effectively turn the West Bank into a patchwork quilt, and it’s impossible to have a functional state there (with or without Gaza) unless the settlers either relocate or accept living under Palestinian rule. In a sane situation Israel would be doing the precise opposite of what they’re currently doing and give as many settlers as possible incentives to leave and to make it clear to the rest that they’re not getting any protection if they decide to stick around.

No question that Likud and Hamas are both uninterested in a two-state solution and would like full control over the region. But Israel and Palestine are bigger than Likud and Hamas, so the biggest priority is to sideline both sets of extremists and allow the moderates on each side to work something out. It’s a mistake to confuse them historically being frozen out of power with an unchangeable status quo.

On the Israeli side at least, it seems pretty certain that Netanyahu and his rabble are headed for the reject pile next election, so there might yet be a little window of opportunity there.

[stui magpie]

Maybe it's overly simplistic, maybe not. I think the outcome that might work is that, because Gaza is fkd, let Israel have the territory and make the West Bank the Palestinian state.

All the "Illegal Settlers" (considering Israel controls the territory, having Israelis move in isn't illegal, just not proper) can choose to live in Palestine or go back to Israel.

The people of Gaza can choose to live in what would become part of Israel or not. They'd likely have better lives living in part of Israel anyway. So they wouldn't have a say in how the government works, that would be par for the course for them and hardly unusual in that part of the world which isn't exactly overflowing with democracies.

[David]

The reason it's illegal is because Israel isn't supposed to be in control of the territory – it's an annexation, basically, and there are specific international laws around that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

[think positive]

So why is the USA etc stopping drones from Iran hitting Israel? If they can do that, why didn’t they stop Israeli misfiles hitting Gaza?

This world is £$%$ed

[Magpietothemax]

[David]

Similar to when Soleimani was assassinated, this seems like a bit of a token reprisal on Iran's part.

[Magpietothemax]

^the Iranian regime does not wish to provoke an all out war against Israel, because it would stand to be obliterated by the US if it did so. However for domestic purposes, the regime had to be seen to be responding to Israel's attack on its embassy in Damascus by Israel and the assassination of top military commanders.
Everything now depends on the results of the current discussions taking place between Netahanyu and Biden as to what happens next in terms of escalating the war. Will the US-Israel criminals decide to use this as a pretext for expanding the war, or will they for now sit with the status quo ? We will find out in a very short time.

[Culprit]

Another day of Protests to annoy everyone who doesn't care. I've been told to WFH today, thank you.