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Uncle Jack 
Joined: 17 Apr 2019
Location: Canberra
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| Never a fan of tanking, and we didn't on Sunday, but with nothing to be gained in terms of finals contention this year, a competitive 1 point loss was probably the best result. With a couple more goals we would have moved above (below?) Gold Coast on the ladder a week out from an interesting looking mid year draft. Also got some close game experience and hunger into the new players. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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You echo my thoughts after the game. In order to improve, it is crucial that we grab the best available to fill the gaps in our lineup. My preference is for a top forward and midfielder, as to me our current defence looks good.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Cruisinwithdids
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| I am not referencing simplicity - you are, continuously. Degory is one of the more skilled players in the team and kicked sideways rather than pinpointing MCReary 30 metres out. That’s a defensive mindset limiting talent via dour coaching. The moment Buckley leaves, the club can start progressing. The coaching is pte programming players to serving themselves. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Lazza wrote: | | You echo my thoughts after the game. In order to improve, it is crucial that we grab the best available to fill the gaps in our lineup. My preference is for a top forward and midfielder, as to me our current defence looks good. |
Apparently there’s some very good news for us. This mid season draft is particularly strong. I’m tempted to go for one of the midfielders available despite our need for a tall forward. |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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A tall forward of quality is a rare thing—we have both Cameron and Checkers who if we had a midfield that didn’t dilly dally the ball to each other and with a proactive mindset to seize opportunity when it came up
Of course the Darcy & Brody as forward must want the ball to come to them all the time and if it spills a Mc Creery to mop up
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | Lazza wrote: | | You echo my thoughts after the game. In order to improve, it is crucial that we grab the best available to fill the gaps in our lineup. My preference is for a top forward and midfielder, as to me our current defence looks good. |
Apparently there’s some very good news for us. This mid season draft is particularly strong. I’m tempted to go for one of the midfielders available despite our need for a tall forward. |
I’m very much looking forward to our participation in this draft.
We will most likely have either pick 2 or 3 and then if we do go around again, we would probably have something like a second pick between 11 - 13.
There is a lot to like about this draft. We have so many holes, it’s not like we only need a specific type. Also, the Vic kids finally have a proper platform to show their competitive abilities again.
I have no idea who is on their short list and I don’t really care, as long as at least on of the selections goes on to have a reasonable career at AFL level. |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Cruisinwithdids wrote: | | I am not referencing simplicity - you are, continuously. Degory is one of the more skilled players in the team and kicked sideways rather than pinpointing MCReary 30 metres out. That’s a defensive mindset limiting talent via dour coaching. The moment Buckley leaves, the club can start progressing. The coaching is pte programming players to serving themselves. |
To execute the sort of game style that you and many here are advocating ie fast ball movement wherever possible, you need great ball handlers, great
kicking skills, good marking targets in the forward line, excellent decision- makers and pace, pace, pace!
Please list the present players you think could therefore play the sort of game plan you are proposing for all of four quarters. I'll start:
IQ
Young Daics
Pendles, when he was two years younger......
I can't recall the prominent coach who once said that game plans need to be adjusted to suit the sort of players you have. It may have been Leigh Matthews? |
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Cruisinwithdids
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | Cruisinwithdids wrote: | | I am not referencing simplicity - you are, continuously. Degory is one of the more skilled players in the team and kicked sideways rather than pinpointing MCReary 30 metres out. That’s a defensive mindset limiting talent via dour coaching. The moment Buckley leaves, the club can start progressing. The coaching is pte programming players to serving themselves. |
To execute the sort of game style that you and many here are advocating ie fast ball movement wherever possible, you need great ball handlers, great
kicking skills, good marking targets in the forward line, excellent decision- makers and pace, pace, pace!
Please list the present players you think could therefore play the sort of game plan you are proposing for all of four quarters. I'll start:
IQ
Young Daics
Pendles, when he was two years younger......
I can't recall the prominent coach who once said that game plans need to be adjusted to suit the sort of players you have. It may have been Leigh Matthews? |
You are being simplistic to make excuses for the coach. Collingwood are one of the bottom teams no matter how they play. There’s no way around that. Not good enough - simple. Moving the ball faster when the opportunity arises is not exclusive to the top 2 teams or brilliant ball handlers. If we had have done it on the weekend just a few times, we would have won. It’s about creating urgency, energy and positivity. It’s about doing the same thing faster. In 2018 when Longmuir was at the club and Buckley was ordered to allow input from others the ball was moved faster. The team wasn’t that Different. They will get done on the rebound and have some heavier losses. When we look back on 2021 will we all say, gee that 50 point loss in round 13 was unacceptable and has caused great damage? Or gee that one point loss to Port was an amazing highlight that has developed our young players. No to both I’d reckon. It’s not one or the other. The negativity in the game style matches the negativity of the coach. The sooner he is shown the door the better. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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^ Okay, I think you sort of answered my question by acknowledging that we are a bottom team, no matter how we play!! Why then send them to the slaughter, by insisting that play fast, risky football ALL the time???
I bet the next coach won't issue instructions to play on and play fast all through the game, if it becomes obvious that they just can't maintain it and are on course for a hiding! Der.
Anyway, we'll see.
Perhaps Bucks know his player's abilities better than anyone here. When their energy reserves are high at the start and the opposition hasn't got going yet, they can play attacking football and establish a lead, as often happens in our first quarters eg Sunday . Opposition amps up their pressure and the fast football at all costs starts to fall apart and fail, simply because our players are not skilled enough on the whole to execute it under extreme pressure.
Thank goodness we CAN play reasonably effective defense,
or shellackings would happen on a regular basis. I remain adamant in my belief that heavy losses are not productive in any way, whereas one point losses create hope, endorse what was done correctly and increase the intent to do that little bit better next time. Basic human psychology there!
You also seem to forget that there is another team on the ground that are trying their best to win too and prevent fast ball movement! Most of these teams above us have more talent to do this, as you acknowledge.
In conclusion, I reckon Bucks is doing a reasonable job with the "cattle" he has and a new coach, be it Clarko or anyone else, won't be able to transform
the team, until more top quality players are added to it. |
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schuey07 
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Location: Mount Waverley
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | ^ Okay, I think you sort of answered my question by acknowledging that we are a bottom team, no matter how we play!! Why then send them to the slaughter, by insisting that play fast, risky football ALL the time???
I bet the next coach won't issue instructions to play on and play fast all through the game, if it becomes obvious that they just can't maintain it and are on course for a hiding! Der.
Anyway, we'll see.
Perhaps Bucks know his player's abilities better than anyone here. When their energy reserves are high at the start and the opposition hasn't got going yet, they can play attacking football and establish a lead, as often happens in our first quarters eg Sunday . Opposition amps up their pressure and the fast football at all costs starts to fall apart and fail, simply because our players are not skilled enough on the whole to execute it under extreme pressure.
Thank goodness we CAN play reasonably effective defense,
or shellackings would happen on a regular basis. I remain adamant in my belief that heavy losses are not productive in any way, whereas one point losses create hope, endorse what was done correctly and increase the intent to do that little bit better next time. Basic human psychology there!
You also seem to forget that there is another team on the ground that are trying their best to win too and prevent fast ball movement! Most of these teams above us have more talent to do this, as you acknowledge.
In conclusion, I reckon Bucks is doing a reasonable job with the "cattle" he has and a new coach, be it Clarko or anyone else, won't be able to transform
the team, until more top quality players are added to it. |
How many years will it take you to realise Bucks can’t coach for s@#t. Give him another 10 and we’ll still be in this same situation. There are none so blind as those who can’t see. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| All I can see is many posters trotting out generalisations like yours above, doing the usual sheep following act, without doing any analysis of the state of our team and what they are capable of. So be it. |
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schuey07
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Location: Mount Waverley
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | All I can see is many posters trotting out generalisations like yours above, doing the usual sheep following act, without doing any analysis of the state of our team and what they are capable of. So be it. |
You’re the sheep. He has had good teams and hasn’t had success. He is a self centred person who only cares about Bucks. You may be fooled by the way he speaks to the media but I’m not. The club is bigger than one man. We will never have success while he is coach. It doesn’t matter who we have playing for us he is not going to win a premiership. |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Following on from my post on Sunday, some further thoughts came to my mind.
We should consider giving De Goey and Maynard more time in the midfield, particularly JDG who was effectively frozen out of the game for 115 minutes on Sunday, before doing some damage in the last five minutes of the game.
Further, we can't keep relying on Pendlebury and Sidebottom to carry our midfield forever. The fact that they're still so pivotal to our midfield core is an indictment.
Still can't believe the amount of times players looked sideways rather than kicking to a one on one contest. The one that really stood out was in the third quarter when McCreery to the attacking 50 on his own, and Sidebottom overlooked him and opted to kick to the wing instead. This is clearly a coaching directive.
I'm starting to warm to the idea of recruiting Stengle in the mid-season draft despite his past off field troubles. He'd fit in nicely as a crumbing forward which we've lacked in spades for a long time.
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Cruisinwithdids
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | ^ Okay, I think you sort of answered my question by acknowledging that we are a bottom team, no matter how we play!! Why then send them to the slaughter, by insisting that play fast, risky football ALL the time???
I bet the next coach won't issue instructions to play on and play fast all through the game, if it becomes obvious that they just can't maintain it and are on course for a hiding! Der.
Anyway, we'll see.
Perhaps Bucks know his player's abilities better than anyone here. When their energy reserves are high at the start and the opposition hasn't got going yet, they can play attacking football and establish a lead, as often happens in our first quarters eg Sunday . Opposition amps up their pressure and the fast football at all costs starts to fall apart and fail, simply because our players are not skilled enough on the whole to execute it under extreme pressure.
Thank goodness we CAN play reasonably effective defense,
or shellackings would happen on a regular basis. I remain adamant in my belief that heavy losses are not productive in any way, whereas one point losses create hope, endorse what was done correctly and increase the intent to do that little bit better next time. Basic human psychology there!
You also seem to forget that there is another team on the ground that are trying their best to win too and prevent fast ball movement! Most of these teams above us have more talent to do this, as you acknowledge.
In conclusion, I reckon Bucks is doing a reasonable job with the "cattle" he has and a new coach, be it Clarko or anyone else, won't be able to transform
the team, until more top quality players are added to it. |
You are deliberately misquoting me by saying ‘fast risky football all the time’, when if had have read my post it highlights taking opportunities to attack when they arise. Anything else you have written has zero credibility due to your irrational misquoting designed to sensationalise your point. This is a forum where everyone, not just you, has a right to an opinion, so if you want comment on someone’s opinion - read the post properly. |
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WarrenerraW
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | All I can see is many posters trotting out generalisations like yours above, doing the usual sheep following act, without doing any analysis of the state of our team and what they are capable of. So be it. |
How much more evidence from posters here and the media at large do you need to realise that Nathan Buckley is a self-centred narcissist, and an incompetent coach who is driving our team and club into the ground with his selfish mindset and controlling personality. FFS we're second last on the ladder and a basket case on the field. Players run around aimlessly as if with no purpose or sense of direction. I have zero confidence in my team and as much as I want them to win, I know we won't, or it'll end up a "hard fought" win.
We play a boring and predictable style of football that is passive and defensive and is centred around slow over use of the football. Our players are taught (by Buckley) to either go sideways or backwards and if you don't believe me then watch the passage of play of JDG receiving the ball on the d50 against port. He had two players running forward and into space who could have provided a scoring opportunity. He could have and bloody well should have, kicked it to one of them. Instead, he did what he was taught (by Buckley) and that was to go sideways. This is the first instinct of our players and has been for some time now. Our players want to attack and take the game on but can't because it's been coached out of them by Nathan Buckley.
The only one trotting out the same generalisations week in and week out, is Nathan Buckley. He's had ten years in the top job and has nothing to show for it. He either lacks insight and understanding of his inability to coach or he is in complete denial about how awful a coach he is. He gets an armchair ride from the media because he "speaks well" and his manager also manages many media personalities who are always going to take his side anyway. The only way we can move forward and improve is for Buckley to be weeded out. Unfortunately he won't unless his arse is booted firmly out the door by a competent board with the balls to do it.
But if you choose to support Buckley then that's your call. Many of us here don't and we're fed up and want a changes in the coaches box and club at large. This is the only way to save the club from further ruin. |
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