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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Pies2016 wrote: | | BazBoy wrote: | I believe too much is made of “playing a roll” which Bucks was
Playing Callum Brown in midfield after the VFL coach put him there
Harvey may have hit on something |
I think a bit to much has been made of this move. There are a number of recent high draft picks who played mid field as juniors but did their apprenticeships on the flanks in the seniors. Both Parish and Dow ( both inside top 5 picks ) recently attributed their good form to starting their senior careers as high forwards.
McGrath ( pick one ) started at half back before going into the centre a couple years ago. Walsh ( number one ) spent his early days on the wing. We can’t expect U18 year old midfielders to hold their ground or run out four quarters against seasoned pros in the mid field.
Brown has now played 50 games ( four pre seasons ) and dominated his last couple VFL games, so the timing seems about right to me. He needs to back it up of course but the signs were good against the Tigers. |
I accept your argument. However it doesn’t make much sense when a player is being played out of position and it contributes to the side losing which has a flow on effect to the coach finding himself out of a job, especially one who’s given his life and soul to the club. I hope our next coach, whoever that might be, considers my point before he chooses to play McCrae and Rantall in the forward line as a learning experience. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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^ ^ ^
It’s a balancing act. Developing and integrating kids into the seniors is usually a robbing Peter to pay Paul decision anyway. The decision becomes do we select for the now or do we select for the future. Obviously the lower the ladder position, the easier that decision becomes.
I can promise you, although some don’t feel that way, there is so much discussion that goes on around the role a kid will play when he comes into the seniors. So the decision is invariably will the kid get more out of getting a lot of ball in the seconds, being exposed to the tempo and pressure of the seniors at half forward or being a 19 year old midfielder and coming up against the likes of Fyfe and Mundy standing opposite you with the game on the line ( yes, that’s an extreme example but depending on the opposition, all that comes into their thinking )
When you see the improvement in Parish and Dows last couple games, I think the end justifies the means and if Brown keeps playing like his last game, then the first 50 games will be forgotten fairly quickly.
Last edited by Pies2016 on Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| I agree. The point is an AFL coach doesn’t have the luxury of developing a team, or in the case of Nathan Buckley, you get one go at it as in 2013/14 but you’re denied that second go in 2021. All would have been forgiven if we nabbed the premiership in 2018 because then you have the credits on the board. Either way we have a lot to look forward to as a football club around 2023/24 and largely on the basis of what Nathan Buckley did in 2021. However he won’t get any credit for it. That goes to our new coach. |
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23 YIPPEE!!!
YIPPEE 23!!!
Joined: 24 Jul 2019
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Im the same i feel around 2023,2024 collingwood is looking good but we need to do the hard yards first and it starts this year and next year then let the good times roll come 2023 and beyond.
Hard yards must be done first though thats the thing. |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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| Quote: | | It’s a balancing act. Developing and integrating kids into the seniors is usually a robbing Peter to pay Paul decision anyway. ..... When you see the improvement in Parish and Dows last couple games, I think the end justifies the means and if Brown keeps playing like his last game, then the first 50 games will be forgotten fairly quickly. |
Perhaps Brown is a one-trick pony and it's either in the guts or the EDFL?
If so, he'd want to shine for the rest of the year as Sier is showing consistent form in the VFL and we seem to have a good bunch of kids coming through.
One thing to work on would be tackling.
He should be commended for his work rate in this area but still seems to be brushed aside too easily too frequently.
Apart from that, great win by the boys and special mention to Adams, Crisp and Maynard (also Mihocek) the human battering-rams. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Piesnchess wrote: | Agree re the Bucks haters, im not one of them. I actually rate our win over the Tigers as equal to the Deeeees one, both were truly great efforts, against all odds.  |
The Buck”s haters had the right to their opinions but went too far when they became extremely nasty and it was patently obvious that they were on a definite mission to get him sacked. To me that is not the role of a Collingwood supporter, or an example of sticking side by side, rather the responsibility of the committee. However politics always plays a role and it became an issue around survival for some of the committee members and for others a bloody convenient platform to launch their bids to be elected on to the committee. Such is life🙄
After all is said and done, there is always far more said than done, with other personal agendas leading to what is said. The result is the committee we get elect with all their nuances.
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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gurugeoff
Joined: 09 Oct 2013
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| MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | gurugeoff wrote: | Ruscoe was tough, body on body, in a few contests
Madgen certainly has some impressive stats for one so maligned |
He skies a ball up in the air in the first quarter that results in a Richmond goal. In the last quarter he disposes of the ball straight into the hands of Dusty Martin for another Richmond goal. That's two goals he's given away. Then there's the contests he loses to his opponent where his teammates have to cover for him. Taking an uncontested mark that adds to your stat sheet doesn't make you an impressive footballer unless you judge footballers by the number of possessions they collect. |
One needs to look at who Madgen actually is and what he gets paid. He is an ex basketballer who is on low money (for a footballer!!). Meanwhile, our highly paid key defenders (Howe, Moore) are out injured for weeks and weeks. We should gratefully acknowledge that he can compete manfully at this level. Yes, he is not our first choice, but he's the only one still running around. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| thesoretoothsayer wrote: | | Quote: | | It’s a balancing act. Developing and integrating kids into the seniors is usually a robbing Peter to pay Paul decision anyway. ..... When you see the improvement in Parish and Dows last couple games, I think the end justifies the means and if Brown keeps playing like his last game, then the first 50 games will be forgotten fairly quickly. |
Perhaps Brown is a one-trick pony and it's either in the guts or the EDFL?
If so, he'd want to shine for the rest of the year as Sier is showing consistent form in the VFL and we seem to have a good bunch of kids coming through.
One thing to work on would be tackling.
He should be commended for his work rate in this area but still seems to be brushed aside too easily too frequently.
Apart from that, great win by the boys and special mention to Adams, Crisp and Maynard (also Mihocek) the human battering-rams. |
I think Brown is definitely a one trick position pony. If he’s not an inside mid, I don’t see where else he could be played. The trick is to be very good with your one trick. What I liked about Browns last two games in the VFL is that he dominated them both. In a perfect selection world, I’m a big believer in players dominating their position repeatedly before they get the call up. I’m hoping he’s entering the sweet spot of his AFL career ( however that looks) Fifty odd games and now at the point of being to good for the VFL. He knows he needs to keep improving because the next wave of midfielders are at the club. What he did do on the weekend was contribute 330 metres gained from 24 touches at 83%. That’s the sort of return that will keep most in and under mids in the team for a couple more weeks at least. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| ^ The thing Brown brings that most of our other mids can't is the ability to accelerate away from the centre and move the ball directly at the goals. One play he made in the last quarter could not have been made by any other mid on our list because they do not have the pace. His centre exit and good long kick, with Shai Bolton on his hammer, enabled De Goey to take the mark that put Collingwood in front. |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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| ^ So he's a cheaper, (less talented?) version of someone whose wage we're still partially paying? |
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mattdally
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Cal seems to have shown amazing improvement when played on the ball. He's not there yet, but Darcy Parish has had a similar career to date. Only this season he has shone when played in his true position.
These guys are not small forwards or half-forward flankers. They're in and under types who need to be near the action.
Keep Callum there and we will be rewarded. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| thesoretoothsayer wrote: | | ^ So he's a cheaper, (less talented?) version of someone whose wage we're still partially paying? |
If you mean Stephenson, yes; if you mean Treloar - Brown has the potential to be at least twice as good - the issue for Brown is that 3 times as good as Treloar would make him a viable starting midfielder in a top team.
Seriously, see if you can find any footage of Treloar breaking out of the centre under genuine defensive pressure and putting it down the FF's throat. Treloar would never have taken that option - he would have run backwards to CHB and handballed it past Madgen (thereby cutting out the middleman) to Martin and we would have been 9 points behind, instead of 3 in front. |
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doriswilgus
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Location: the great southern land
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I finally saw a replay of the game yesterday.I don’t think we were playing too badly at all in the furst three quarters.It was just that final kick into the forward line that kept bringing us undone,as the commentators mentioned several times.The last quarter was exhilarating and the most exciting brand of football we’ve played since 2018.
Pendlebury’s kicking skills were amazing.I don’t know how many goals he set up with his field kicking.He is the Roger Federer of the football world.I don’t think Grundy was nearly as bad as people were making out during the game.And a special mention must be given to Roughead.He is one of the unsung heroes of this side.He rarely gets beaten one on one,and he is holding the backline together in the absence of Howe and Moore.Well done to him. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | Pies2016 wrote: | | BazBoy wrote: | I believe too much is made of “playing a roll” which Bucks was
Playing Callum Brown in midfield after the VFL coach put him there
Harvey may have hit on something |
I think a bit to much has been made of this move. There are a number of recent high draft picks who played mid field as juniors but did their apprenticeships on the flanks in the seniors. Both Parish and Dow ( both inside top 5 picks ) recently attributed their good form to starting their senior careers as high forwards.
McGrath ( pick one ) started at half back before going into the centre a couple years ago. Walsh ( number one ) spent his early days on the wing. We can’t expect U18 year old midfielders to hold their ground or run out four quarters against seasoned pros in the mid field.
Brown has now played 50 games ( four pre seasons ) and dominated his last couple VFL games, so the timing seems about right to me. He needs to back it up of course but the signs were good against the Tigers. |
I accept your argument. However it doesn’t make much sense when a player is being played out of position and it contributes to the side losing which has a flow on effect to the coach finding himself out of a job, especially one who’s given his life and soul to the club. I hope our next coach, whoever that might be, considers my point before he chooses to play McCrae and Rantall in the forward line as a learning experience. |
not even buckley played in the middle out of the gate. You need the body strength to go there. it takes 2-3 seasons. Its a special mid who can just go straight into the iddle as an 18yo.
_________________
Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | thesoretoothsayer wrote: | | ^ So he's a cheaper, (less talented?) version of someone whose wage we're still partially paying? |
If you mean Stephenson, yes; if you mean Treloar - Brown has the potential to be at least twice as good - the issue for Brown is that 3 times as good as Treloar would make him a viable starting midfielder in a top team.
Seriously, see if you can find any footage of Treloar breaking out of the centre under genuine defensive pressure and putting it down the FF's throat. Treloar would never have taken that option - he would have run backwards to CHB and handballed it past Madgen (thereby cutting out the middleman) to Martin and we would have been 9 points behind, instead of 3 in front. |
i agree Treloar cant kick. Was it him who tried to hit DeGoey in waning moment of 2018 GF that started that attack?
But he isnt a backwards to Magden handballer (actually that is Callum Brown - actually callum brown is the panic handball stright to Dusty Martin type of player - look at the tigers first goal for example). Treloar was a straight line runner and kicker whocan find space beautifully in traffic, Sadly, he just isnt accurate by foot.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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