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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | roar wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Asfor Andrew, Meh,why did she think she was being invited to a private island all expenses paid? Not like she has any other talent, she’s not JL or an interior decorator |
Not your finest moment, TP. |
ha, thats a laugh considering some of the shit written here!
i stand by it, ive even watch the netflix story, there is a big difference between being taken advantage of, and being forced. again why did they think they were getting an all expenses paid trip? |
Just to clarify, is your position that Epstein mostly did nothing wrong and that the underage girls he trafficked were willing participants, or that Andrew and other rich and famous "customers" were somehow immune from responsibility for their part in it?
(I'm not trying to get into an argument here as I was under the impression pretty much everyone was in agreement about the ethics of the enterprise, just trying to understand your point. Beyond that, I found this long interview with another of Epstein's victims quite enlightening as to his tactics and some of the things they went through: https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/maria-farmer)
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Last edited by David on Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| think positive wrote: | | Maybe woody Allen then, or the rapist director who won’t go back to the US. |
Woody Allen hasn’t been found guilty of anything. In fact he was cleared as it were and maintains his innocence. The family are divided over allegations which were made post the end of the marriage with Mia Farrow. In fact, one of the adopted children they had is a family therapist and continues to accuse Mia Farrow of concocting this, of being an an abuser herself and saying the unproven claims were made up with respect to facts.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ Yes, that's an important clarification – thanks WPT. I should have pointed that out in my own response. Obviously the Polanski case is a very different one in that he was found guilty and the facts aren't disputed.
Prince Andrew, too, is only "allegedly" guilty, which is making that adverb work harder than most.
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I haven't read enough about the specifics of the Epstein one to understand the trafficking elements, but from memory the girl Andrew was accused of having sex with was 17 from memory, so over the age of consent if it had been a consensual arrangement.
Unlike Bill Wyman who was having sex with Mandy Smith when she was 13/14 and he was 47 or Elvis who was chasing Priscilla when she was 14.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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X. I’m not talking about the Epstein case, he did go over the line. He took advantage of dirt poor young girls. Truly disgusting. Statutory rape. for that alone he should burn in hell.
Not sure how true the series is but the whole time I was screaming inside girl don’t go there, don’t take your friends there. They went willingly, and went back for more. where the **** were their parents?
its not like he was good looking, just rich. didnt even seem charming. money and greed and power. yuk
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Last edited by think positive on Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:27 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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| stui magpie wrote: | I haven't read enough about the specifics of the Epstein one to understand the trafficking elements, but from memory the girl Andrew was accused of having sex with was 17 from memory, so over the age of consent if it had been a consensual arrangement.
Unlike Bill Wyman who was having sex with Mandy Smith when she was 13/14 and he was 47 or Elvis who was chasing Priscilla when she was 14. |
Yes that’s what I meant. She was 17 went willingly to the island, other girls did the same. If it was my daughter my first reaction would be don’t go they want sex in some form or other. Why else would they be invited? Sleazy by the prince yes illegal no and it doesn’t make him a pedophile
Gees you don’t have to be rich, guy at a party, hey you wanna have sex with him? Ok . I know more than a few women who regret a one night stand!
As for woods he married his step adopted daughter, that’s twisted. Again sleazy
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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The thing with Epstein and Maxwell is that they specifically sought out girls from damaged backgrounds, who didn't necessarily have strong parental figures around to step in. Giuffre is a case in point (this is from her "early life" section on Wikipedia):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Giuffre
| Quote: | | It was reported that she had come from a "troubled home" and, from the age of seven, was molested by a close family friend. "I was just so mentally scarred already at such a young age, and I ran away from that," she said on Panorama in 2019. Giuffre told the Miami Herald that she went from being in "an abusive situation, to being a runaway, to living in foster homes". She lived on the streets at age 14, where she says she found only, "hunger and pain and [more] abuse". Later she was abused by a 65-year-old sex trafficker, Ron Eppinger, in Miami. Giuffre lived with Eppinger for approximately 6 months. Eppinger reportedly ran a front business for international sex trafficking known as the modeling agency "Perfect 10". He was raided by the FBI and later pleaded guilty to charges of alien smuggling for prostitution, interstate travel for prostitution, and money laundering. |
Giuffre was 17 when she fell into Epstein's circle and allegedly was prostituted out to Andrew, but still under the age of consent in the jurisdiction where she lived; and regardless of age of consent laws, it's still a crime to sex-traffic minors in the US and UK alike. She has also alleged that Andrew had sex with other underage girls in her presence, and it's well known that some of Epstein's victims were as young as 14. From the link above:
| Quote: | In a December 2014 Florida court filing, intended for inclusion in the 2008 Crime Victims' Rights Act lawsuit, Giuffre described being trafficked to Prince Andrew, Duke of York, at least three times when she was 17 in 2001 for rape. She claims that Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell took her to Tramp nightclub in London, where she met and danced with Andrew and that later that night, while en route to Maxwell's Belgravia residence, Maxwell instructed Giuffre to "do for (Prince Andrew) what you do for Epstein". She alleged Epstein paid her $15,000 to have sex with the Duke in London.
A photo that shows Giuffre, Prince Andrew and Maxwell in Ghislaine's apartment has been widely circulated since 2011. Prince Andrew's ten-year role as a United Kingdom trade envoy was terminated in July 2011, and he reportedly cut all ties with Epstein. When asked in 2011 whether Prince Andrew would have information, she told her lawyers: "Yes, he would know a lot of the truth." "Again, I don't know how much he would be able to help you with, but seeing he's in a lot of trouble himself these days, I think he might," she added. "So, I think he may be valuable. I'm not too sure of him."
The second sexual encounter allegedly happened in Epstein's New York mansion. In court documents, Giuffre claimed that the third encounter with Prince Andrew was an orgy on Little Saint James that involved her, several underage girls from Eastern Europe, the Prince, and Jeffrey Epstein himself.
In 2015, spokespersons for the British royal family stated that "any suggestion of impropriety with underage minors is categorically untrue", later repeating the denials. Requests from Giuffre's lawyers for a statement under oath from the Duke about the allegations were returned unanswered.
In August 2021, Giuffre started a New York lawsuit against Prince Andrew, accusing him of "sexual assault and intentional infliction of emotional distress". Giuffre’s lawsuit, which seeks unspecified damages, was brought before the New York federal judge Lewis A. Kaplan.
In January 2022 Giuffre's former boyfriend, Anthony Figueroa, said on Good Morning Britain that Giuffre told him Epstein would take her to meet Prince Andrew. Figueroa alleged the meeting had taken place in London, before which "she was really nervous and scared because she didn't know how to react to it." In a court filing, Prince Andrew's lawyers had previously referred to a statement by Figueroa's sister, Crystal Figueroa, who alleged that in her bid to find victims for Epstein, Giuffre had asked her "Do you know any girls who are kind of slutty?" In the same month, Carolyn Andriano, who as a 14-year-old was introduced by Giuffre to Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein and was a prosecution witness in the trial of Maxwell, claimed in an interview that then 17-year-old Giuffre told her in 2001 that she had slept with Prince Andrew. Andriano stated, "And she [Giuffre] said, 'I got to sleep with him'. She didn't seem upset about it. She thought it was pretty cool."
In February 2022, Prince Andrew agreed to an out-of-court settlement by paying an undisclosed sum of money. |
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | ^ Yes, that's an important clarification – thanks WPT. I should have pointed that out in my own response. Obviously the Polanski case is a very different one in that he was found guilty and the facts aren't disputed.
Prince Andrew, too, is only "allegedly" guilty, which is making that adverb work harder than most. |
There’s simply no comparison with Prince Andrew and that’s a smart arse response David. Who apart from Prince Andrew says he was innocent?
Allen has been to court. Further as I noted a child of theirs that is Mia Farrow is a family therapist accuses his adopted mother of abuse and simply pulls apart Dylan’s accusations saying her recollection of places where the alleged abuse too place were physically impossible to have occurred.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Not sure I understand why you took issue with my post, WPT. Andrew hasn't been found guilty in any court of law. The part of my post that you're presumably characterising as a "smart arse response" – "making that adverb work harder than most" – is making the exact same point that you're making, that nobody but Prince Andrew believes that he is innocent. So I think we may be in furious agreement...
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think positive
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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to clarify, trafficked children, were they kidnapped or did their parents know what was going on? charge the parents too. anyone involved in arranging for adults to have sex with kids or kids to have sex with kids, should be castrated IMO.
Giuffre story is awful, and its disgusting society allows it to happen.
when she was with Andrew she was 17, and with her history she knew what was going on. he should have been charged with statutory rape, depending on the laws at that locale, but im curious if she went after anyone else, or just the guy who had to pay to prevent a scandal? a guy who quite literally cant tell his side of the story. he was also guilty of being friends with a pervert, but thats not a crime either. if his worst crime was having sex with a 17 year old when he was 26, i think he has more than paid his dues. where is the proof of younger girls around?
how many groupies have been coerced or downright forced into having sex? at what age. its just one big shit show. its called men in power with no $$%^%%$ morals!
name any actor, business man, sportsman, i doubt very few dont have something seedy in their past.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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exactly!
i have no idea where or why epstein got his riches, but he was too ugly to get protection, or not making money for others. just watch the elvis story, its all about money
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | when she was with Andrew she was 17, and with her history she knew what was going on. he should have been charged with statutory rape, depending on the laws at that locale, but im curious if she went after anyone else, or just the guy who had to pay to prevent a scandal? a guy who quite literally cant tell his side of the story. he was also guilty of being friends with a pervert, but thats not a crime either. if his worst crime was having sex with a 17 year old when he was 26, i think he has more than paid his dues. where is the proof of younger girls around? |
From my understanding she didn't "go after" anyone. It was Epstein and Maxwell who arranged everything.
Given Andrew's longstanding association with Epstein over the years, most would find it very, very unlikely that Giuffre was the only one. For her part, Giuffre recounts a story of Andrew participating in an "orgy" with her and eight other girls, most of whom she believes to have been underaged.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-andrew-jeffrey-epstein-orgy-virginia-roberts-giuffre-channel-4-dispatches-a9164566.html
| Quote: | There is no suggestion that Prince Andrew was responsible for her injuries, but Dispatches has established that the royal met Epstein at least 10 times during their 12-year friendship and sometimes stayed with him for several days.
Mr Fisten also suggested that Epstein had 13 phone numbers for the duke. |
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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For money,
She gas no proof, any other witnesses?
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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