Our draft record under Derek Hine et al

[jackcass]

If he is so good why haven't other clubs drafted him?

So not Hines fault

Yep, even the Bumbers when they were looking for top up players.

[AN_Inkling]

He's 191 cm so is not a key position player, just another half back of which we have many. He's too slow and lacking in running power to play as a medium and those are just a couple of the reasons no club has shown any or much interest. He's a pretty good kick but that's just about it. An AFL player needs a lot more than that, just ask Karnezis who had far more talent or Armstrong who was a better user of the ball and actually had pace.

Marsh is a much better prospect and even he has not been able to cement a spot in our seniors yet.

[5 from the wing on debut]

Just posting here to say that your reference to Thomas and Keeffe is pathetic. Happy to discuss the merits of rookie listing Ryan Pendlebury once you reconsider that.

Your comment in relation to Thomas & Keefe caught my attention. Correct me if I am wrong but I understand that they tested positive to clenbuterol which is a drug used to assist with stripping fat and building muscle. It is illegal under the WADA code. I read in various media at the time that they had inadvertently ingested the drug when taking cocaine, as it was used to fill out the volume of the cocaine. This would make them drug users but not necessarily drug cheats.

The issue that appeared not to have been explored is that it has been suggested that clenbuterol is a more expensive drug than cocaine. That would be the equivalent of a publican watering down beer with scotch.

[David]

It's an established fact that cocaine is often cut with clembuterol, and it by far seems the most likely explanation as to how it got into their system.

I don't want to derail the thread, but I hate snide off-hand remarks like that going unchallenged.

[Museman]

Other clubs have disregarded him for the same reason, football smarts and kicking skill are secondary to running power.....

The games a joke

[5 from the wing on debut]

It's an established fact that cocaine is often cut with clembuterol, and it by far seems the most likely explanation as to how it got into their system.

I don't want to derail the thread, but I hate snide off-hand remarks like that going unchallenged.

If you don't want to derail the thread don't raise the issue. I was responding to an issue that you raised. A few points:

1. The drug is clenbuterol, not clembuterol. For someone that knows the established facts about the drug it's surprising that you don't know its name;

2. Perhaps the issue of drug use in sports is new to you as it has never been treated seriously by the AFL. That includes right now. For the last 40 years I have seen first hand the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs in amateur sport where the drugs are taken just to win, let alone to make an income;

3. Athletes test positive to clenbuterol all around the world on a regular basis. They all have reasons as to why they did not mean to take it. It's the sporting equivalent of the dog ate my homework. Rogers explanation may have been accepted as he was in China but the 2 Pies were not. I do not share your naivety/ gullibility and I certainly won't defend them just because they play for my team;

4. The most logical explanation is that they were caught using the drug for the purpose for which it was intended. Regardless of their intent though, they have been branded for life. There was nothing snide at all about my comment. They have been found guilty. They are extremely lucky that the club did not cut them adrift straight away. Perhaps if the club had a better culture it would have done so.

[AN_Inkling]

Other clubs have disregarded him for the same reason, football smarts and kicking skill are secondary to running power.....

The games a joke

Half agree, but what is said by that is whether you have skills or not, first you need to be fit enough and that goes for any elite sport. With the limits to rotations I think we've reached a point where the required level of fitness is too high, but it's not as if there weren't barriers to skilled players in earlier eras, back then it was more likely to be "toughness" than fitness that would rule them out.

[Pies4shaw]

It's an established fact that cocaine is often cut with clembuterol, and it by far seems the most likely explanation as to how it got into their system.

I don't want to derail the thread, but I hate snide off-hand remarks like that going unchallenged.

If you don't want to derail the thread don't raise the issue. I was responding to an issue that you raised. A few points:

1. The drug is clenbuterol, not clembuterol. For someone that knows the established facts about the drug it's surprising that you don't know its name;

2. Perhaps the issue of drug use in sports is new to you as it has never been treated seriously by the AFL. That includes right now. For the last 40 years I have seen first hand the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs in amateur sport where the drugs are taken just to win, let alone to make an income;

3. Athletes test positive to clenbuterol all around the world on a regular basis. They all have reasons as to why they did not mean to take it. It's the sporting equivalent of the dog ate my homework. Rogers explanation may have been accepted as he was in China but the 2 Pies were not. I do not share your naivety/ gullibility and I certainly won't defend them just because they play for my team;

4. The most logical explanation is that they were caught using the drug for the purpose for which it was intended. Regardless of their intent though, they have been branded for life. There was nothing snide at all about my comment. They have been found guilty. They are extremely lucky that the club did not cut them adrift straight away. Perhaps if the club had a better culture it would have done so.

David wasn't suggesting that anything you said was "snide". He was referring to the reference to "drug cheats" in the OP.

As for the rest of it, I'm not playing.

[inxs88]

Semantics everybody. the record shows that a 2 year ban for "inadvertent" or otherwise means they're drug cheats. Wasn't meant to be a term of "non" endearment more just a faster way of summarising them together.

[stui magpie]

He's 191 cm so is not a key position player, just another half back of which we have many. He's too slow and lacking in running power to play as a medium and those are just a couple of the reasons no club has shown any or much interest. He's a pretty good kick but that's just about it. An AFL player needs a lot more than that, just ask Karnezis who had far more talent or Armstrong who was a better user of the ball and actually had pace.

Marsh is a much better prospect and even he has not been able to cement a spot in our seniors yet.

Bingo. He's 6'3" not 6'4". Not quick or skilled enough for an on ball role, not quick enough for a HBF (of which we have a plethora) and not tall enough for a KPP.

Good player, very good at VFL or local level, just lacking enough to not be an AFL player.

[jackcass]

He's 191 cm so is not a key position player, just another half back of which we have many. He's too slow and lacking in running power to play as a medium and those are just a couple of the reasons no club has shown any or much interest. He's a pretty good kick but that's just about it. An AFL player needs a lot more than that, just ask Karnezis who had far more talent or Armstrong who was a better user of the ball and actually had pace.

Marsh is a much better prospect and even he has not been able to cement a spot in our seniors yet.

Bingo. He's 6'3" not 6'4". Not quick or skilled enough for an on ball role, not quick enough for a HBF (of which we have a plethora) and not tall enough for a KPP.

Good player, very good at VFL or local level, just lacking enough to not be an AFL player.

Much like Kritta. Need some point of difference to earn a KPD spot at that height at senior level, Gibson a case in point.

[5 from the wing on debut]

It's an established fact that cocaine is often cut with clembuterol, and it by far seems the most likely explanation as to how it got into their system.

I don't want to derail the thread, but I hate snide off-hand remarks like that going unchallenged.

If you don't want to derail the thread don't raise the issue. I was responding to an issue that you raised. A few points:

1. The drug is clenbuterol, not clembuterol. For someone that knows the established facts about the drug it's surprising that you don't know its name;

2. Perhaps the issue of drug use in sports is new to you as it has never been treated seriously by the AFL. That includes right now. For the last 40 years I have seen first hand the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs in amateur sport where the drugs are taken just to win, let alone to make an income;

3. Athletes test positive to clenbuterol all around the world on a regular basis. They all have reasons as to why they did not mean to take it. It's the sporting equivalent of the dog ate my homework. Rogers explanation may have been accepted as he was in China but the 2 Pies were not. I do not share your naivety/ gullibility and I certainly won't defend them just because they play for my team;

4. The most logical explanation is that they were caught using the drug for the purpose for which it was intended. Regardless of their intent though, they have been branded for life. There was nothing snide at all about my comment. They have been found guilty. They are extremely lucky that the club did not cut them adrift straight away. Perhaps if the club had a better culture it would have done so.

David wasn't suggesting that anything you said was "snide". He was referring to the reference to "drug cheats" in the OP.

As for the rest of it, I'm not playing.

I didn't read it that way as I was the only one quoted above the response but if you are correct I apologise to David for the tone of my response.

[woftam]

Weird thread. How many times has the OP seen him play. Good VFL player but isn't AFL standard. So pretty much the same reason we didn't draft his other brother Kris. Nobody else did either.

[inxs88]

Well lets not forget the following VFL defenders whom would bypassed and are now elite and first picked in their respective defences:

* Dean Rampe: was from the Seagull. Shall be All Australian this year
* Adam Saad: killing it at Gold Coast
* Michael Hibberd: plucked from Frankston Dolphins. top 6 player on Ess. list
* Kyle Hartigan: mainstay now in Crows defence from Werribee originally
* Sam Collins: Box Hill Hawks player doing great for Freo.
* Alex Silvagni: middling player from Coburg but had 6 years career at Freo
* Tom Ruggles: B & F for Cats in VFL last year now a cats mainstay
* Sam Mitchell: yes more midfield but a 2001 Box Hill B & F winner
* Michael Firrito: now played 265 games after Box Hill career.

What can Ryan Pendlebury do and what has he done??

1. he can kick
2. he has footy smarts
3. he hits targets
4. he was in VFL team of the year
5. he was ranked number 1 for rebound 50's in the entire VFL league for year

Let's stop worrying what he can't do. He would be better than:

* Toovey
* Maynard (at this stage)
* Frost etc...

[HAL]

Who wouldn't?