The Hydra ~ Caro rears her head again

[Collingwood Crackerjack]

Your last line is spot on, my dad beat my mum to a pulp more than once, it's no laughing matter. But pray tell, what does this have to do with domestic violence?

Also tell me, if it was about fat slobbo (deliberate abuse to antagonise) would you be as upset and if not why not? Men don't deserve to be beaten by a partner, male or female, by a son, by a father, or walking down the street?

This is political correctness gone mad.

And no one has replied to the fact that Neale Daniher said something simular when Robbo went down the slide.

TP, I am truly sorry you (and your mum)had to put up with that, totally unacceptable.

What I am suggesting is that a big part of DV is the culture in which it is allowed to flourish.

Now, if we, as a Nation, did not have an issue with DV, if on average 2 women a week were not being beaten to death, than the Eddie comment (and I might add that Frawley's were far, far worse than Eddies) may have grounds to be seen as a bit of a joke.

We do not live in that Nation; in fact, as a Nation, we have a disgraceful DV record, a bloody disgraceful record.

Is in in that context that the President of the biggest and best Club in the land made the comment.

In short, context is everything, and leaders of the Nation, of which Ed is, have a particular responsibility to lead the way in changing the culture.

FFS, someone said that the Honeymooners 'Straight to the moon...' joke was just a bit of fun, even given the incredible numbers of women in the 50's who passed away 'after falling down the stars officer, it was a tragic accident'.

Now, it would seem that most of here don't see a link. I won't be shamed or bullied (not saying that you are shaming or bullying me, but Leave it is coping a bake from others) in my belief that there is a link, that the fight against DV starts with attitudes.

The straw man argument about 'What if he said it about Slobbo' holds no water for me, as we don't have a violence epidemic against fat drunk football journalists

Fair enough I'll agree to disagree

Fair enough; the email from the Club seems to suggest i'm not Robinson Crusoe with my POV.

I'm no Caro fan, lets make that clear, don't like her work or her apparent spitefulness against those who cross her.

Do I think there was much in Eddies comments? No, not really, didn't think there was much in the 'King Kong' comments other than a a bad joke made on the spot either, but that is not the point.

We are trying to address an National culture issue that runs back to convict times, and I expect better from Eddie, due to the fact he holds one of the most important positions in the Country.

If bill or malcolm made similar jokes, their careers would be over, ditto the GG

[yin-YANG]

Obviously if the joke was made about Robbo or some other male journo it would not be blown up as some kind of issue... however I think most of you have missed the key offence here - it is not so much offensive due to the issues in Australia now or previously re domestic violence - it is offensive because of the drowning of witches that took place in the past!

With Ed's religious links he should have known better!

[Collingwood Crackerjack]

The straw man argument about 'What if he said it about Slobbo' holds no water for me, as we don't have a violence epidemic against fat drunk football journalists

Yet similar remarks about Wilson's appearance are deemed sexist and misogynist.

Again, not sure what this is in reference to.

My point relates to public officials in high standing making jokes (however seemingly harmless) at a time of a DV crisis in Australia that we, as a Nation, are trying to address, by changing the culture in which violence against women, even by word, even a a joke, will not be tolerated.

Although given the disgraceful call you made the other day about the gay hate massacre in Orlando, I have no doubt I am wasting my breath.....but perhaps you better than anyone can now see how hateful words can offend, given the reaction you got.

Now, I am not for a second equating Ed's relatively innocuous comment with the hateful crap you posted, but you can see how its a slippery slope, or a matter of degrees on a spectrum

[What'sinaname]

The straw man argument about 'What if he said it about Slobbo' holds no water for me, as we don't have a violence epidemic against fat drunk football journalists

Yet similar remarks about Wilson's appearance are deemed sexist and misogynist.

Your avatar is sexist. I demand you change it to a naked picture of Robbo, body painted in an Essendon jumper.

[Piesnchess]

My main memory of this is that Eddie McGuire dressed himself up in a suit, and was prepared to make himself ridiculous and undignified by sliding on a little blue sled into a pool of ice in front of 50,000 people to raise money for a bloody serious issue. That kind of ice water shocks, and hurts, and it involves a minor kind of personal sacrifice. He did it, stood up, adjusted his tie in a self-mocking manner and walked away - having done a noble thing.

Caroline Wilson is upset because he made a slightly tasteless joke based on his feelings about her journalistic behaviour and denigration of him.

I know whose values seem to me the more real out of this episode. We really have lost our way as a society.

Spot on, very well said, bravo.

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

TP, I am truly sorry you (and your mum)had to put up with that, totally unacceptable.

What I am suggesting is that a big part of DV is the culture in which it is allowed to flourish.

Now, if we, as a Nation, did not have an issue with DV, if on average 2 women a week were not being beaten to death, than the Eddie comment (and I might add that Frawley's were far, far worse than Eddies) may have grounds to be seen as a bit of a joke.

We do not live in that Nation; in fact, as a Nation, we have a disgraceful DV record, a bloody disgraceful record.

Is in in that context that the President of the biggest and best Club in the land made the comment.

In short, context is everything, and leaders of the Nation, of which Ed is, have a particular responsibility to lead the way in changing the culture.

FFS, someone said that the Honeymooners 'Straight to the moon...' joke was just a bit of fun, even given the incredible numbers of women in the 50's who passed away 'after falling down the stars officer, it was a tragic accident'.

Now, it would seem that most of here don't see a link. I won't be shamed or bullied (not saying that you are shaming or bullying me, but Leave it is coping a bake from others) in my belief that there is a link, that the fight against DV starts with attitudes.

The straw man argument about 'What if he said it about Slobbo' holds no water for me, as we don't have a violence epidemic against fat drunk football journalists

Fair enough I'll agree to disagree

Fair enough; the email from the Club seems to suggest i'm not Robinson Crusoe with my POV.

I'm no Caro fan, lets make that clear, don't like her work or her apparent spitefulness against those who cross her.

Do I think there was much in Eddies comments? No, not really, didn't think there was much in the 'King Kong' comments other than a a bad joke made on the spot either, but that is not the point.

We are trying to address an National culture issue that runs back to convict times, and I expect better from Eddie, due to the fact he holds one of the most important positions in the Country.

If bill or malcolm made similar jokes, their careers would be over, ditto the GG

Oh come off it.

Are we so precious we can't make a joke about ourselves.

I repeat this has nothing to do with domestic violence but more to do with living in a repressive society where we are too frightened of expressing our feelings for fear of upsetting someone.

[What'sinaname]

^ the thing is though, we don't know what impact upsetting someone might have. It might seem like nothing, but look at that poor school kid who basically publicly pleaded for help from being bullied.

Is it right to express your feelings if they can hurt someone?

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

^ the thing is though, we don't know what impact upsetting someone might have. It might seem like nothing, but look at that poor school kid who basically publicly pleaded for help from being bullied.

Is it right to express your feelings if they can hurt someone?

But it took a week for anyone to realize that what was said was upsetting.

Doesn't that tell you something.

[Collingwood Crackerjack]

The "holding her under" stuff was certainly the sort of thing a group of bullies would joke about, and that alone made the exchange cringeworthy and inappropriate (and worthy of sanction if it had happened at any workplace), but I agree that the reaction in the media would be very different if they were discussing a male journalist.

The trouble with some of this "violence against women" rhetoric is that it takes us back to the old days when women were seen as the weaker sex who needed to be protected, whereas a man being belted was just one of those things ("toughen up, princess", etc.).

The issue is not and never should be that violence against women is something worse than or fundamentally separate to violence against men. It's about a specific area, domestic violence, where women are much more likely to be victims. This exchange had little if anything to do with that issue.

There is a separate problem here, and one that Wilson seemed to have more issue with: McGuire's reference to her as a "black widow". The fact that he chose such an epithet shows, again, that a lot of the antipathy towards Wilson is at least partially about her gender. It's not a hanging offence, just worth noting, apologising for and moving on.

Anyone for vanilla ice cream?

I hardly see how sexual equality equates to 'the right for women to have the shit kicked out of 'em, same as men'....a weak, placating argument if ever I heard one, and in many ways, far more offensive that most of the ignorant crap posted on this thread.

If 2 blokes a week on average were dying from 'king-hits', all pubs would be shut down until the epidemic was addressed.

[jackcass]

Whether you support Eddie or not what the incident has shown is:

1. Eddie is a goose when it comes to this & other incidents.
2. Eddie should've apologised unequivocally - without excuses or blame.
3. Eddie should've called Caro to apologise straight away
4. Eddie doesn't get it
5. Eddie can be cringeworthy

I'm shocked that Eddie couldn't do some basic damage control for a man that is meant have media smarts.

Having said that, do I think Eddie is misogynist? No
Do I think Eddie has been good for Collingwood? Yes most of the time.

People have been asking & saying that if the same was said about Robbo then ....Indeed that is the whole point.

This is in a week or so since the womens AFL & Collingwood's license & the discussion about Domestic Violence

He & the boys are just the same as the Footy Show of old: Bogan bully boys wearing suits. In the media corridors of power, the best woman knows her place.

If you label this as PC then you've missed the point. I rarely agree with whatsinaname but she's mostly nailed on these pages in my opinion.

Eddie did apologise this morning on radio, he was left messages for Wilson but as of this morning she hadn't returned them and called him back.

I didn't particularly find the thing funny, buet I can get where Eddie was coming from, and Brayshaw as both have been on the receiving end of fictitious critical damaging articles from Wilson over the years and it's reasonably clear that neither have a lot of respect for her journalistic integrity. Basically she makes shit up and when pinned blames her "sources".

Eddie is neither sexist or misogynist, nor was he advocating violence against women, he made remarks about a person based on their professional behaviour, not their gender, but unfortunately because the person the comments were about is female a whole lot of unintended nuances get attributed to the comments.

Frawley is the knucklehead, he often makes remarks about taking physical retribution on Damien Barrett and other members of the footy panel on MMM and no-one bats an eyelid (even though I don't find it overly humorous) yet clearly he wouldn't dare make the same remarks to a female as he'd get crucified for threatening violence against a woman.

Personally I don't think this whole thing does wonders for the Women's causes, in fact I believe the over the top reaction from some actually has a detrimental effect as it unfortunately seems to emphasise that women (apparently) need to be treated with kid gloves and aren't able to stand up for themselves, which is really unfortunate.

If the remark was inappropriate to make about Wilson but it would have been acceptable to make it about a male, then we've got something wrong.

If Wilson had made similar comments on 3AW when Eddie slid into the Ice regarding Eddie not surfacing, would anyone have cared?

Hear hear

[stui magpie]

The straw man argument about 'What if he said it about Slobbo' holds no water for me, as we don't have a violence epidemic against fat drunk football journalists

Yet similar remarks about Wilson's appearance are deemed sexist and misogynist.

Again, not sure what this is in reference to.

My point relates to public officials in high standing making jokes (however seemingly harmless) at a time of a DV crisis in Australia that we, as a Nation, are trying to address, by changing the culture in which violence against women, even by word, even a a joke, will not be tolerated.

Although given the disgraceful call you made the other day about the gay hate massacre in Orlando, I have no doubt I am wasting my breath.....but perhaps you better than anyone can now see how hateful words can offend, given the reaction you got.

Now, I am not for a second equating Ed's relatively innocuous comment with the hateful crap you posted, but you can see how its a slippery slope, or a matter of degrees on a spectrum

If you think the comment I made about Orlando was in any way hateful or supportive of the shooting in Orlando, then I'm afraid I consider you an unmitigated fool and will disregard your opinion.

DV is no doubt an issue. Is it a crisis at present or is it just at the same (unacceptable ) levels but getting more publicity? I'm not sure, but I think those linking the comments from someone who is clearly a campaigner against DV to supporting DV because of the gender of the crap journalist he made the remarks about are drawing a seriously long bow.

[CarringbushCigar]

I'm no Caro fan, lets make that clear, don't like her work or her apparent spitefulness against those who cross her.

Do I think there was much in Eddies comments? No, not really, didn't think there was much in the 'King Kong' comments other than a a bad joke made on the spot either, but that is not the point.

We are trying to address an National culture issue that runs back to convict times, and I expect better from Eddie, due to the fact he holds one of the most important positions in the Country.

If bill or malcolm made similar jokes, their careers would be over, ditto the GG

I think you are spot on CC
And as Caro I think said the worst part of this is the high level bullying
It could be argued and taken that what he has said is he would pay $50,000 to see Caro dead. It's not too far a stretch.

It's Ed's position that makes this so real for her.
I can relate, when I have been super critical of some of the club's practices, I have gone and edited my comments out of fear for my personal safety.
It's bizarre but I'm not lying.

Eddie knows he is feared and he uses it, he perpetuates this media mafia image. Problem is everyone knows its real - but who knows what his thresholds are?

[Collingwood Crackerjack]

Fair enough I'll agree to disagree

Fair enough; the email from the Club seems to suggest i'm not Robinson Crusoe with my POV.

I'm no Caro fan, lets make that clear, don't like her work or her apparent spitefulness against those who cross her.

Do I think there was much in Eddies comments? No, not really, didn't think there was much in the 'King Kong' comments other than a a bad joke made on the spot either, but that is not the point.

We are trying to address an National culture issue that runs back to convict times, and I expect better from Eddie, due to the fact he holds one of the most important positions in the Country.

If bill or malcolm made similar jokes, their careers would be over, ditto the GG

Oh come off it.

Are we so precious we can't make a joke about ourselves.

I repeat this has nothing to do with domestic violence but more to do with living in a repressive society where we are too frightened of expressing our feelings for fear of upsetting someone.

Like I said earlier, stop averaging 2 women beaten or stabbed to death in DV incidence a week, and you can make all the jokes you like old mate, be my guest.

And while we are at it, your not the President of the biggest club in Australia, speaking on national radio....

What is a big issue, or an issue at least, if not big, is when the 2 points above are combined.

[Bucks5]

Nothing in Ed's comments suggest DV or the use of force in any way.

Firstly he say's he would pay $10 grand, no make that $20 grand, to see Caroline Wilson go down the slide. Then says something about making it $50 if she stays under - Nothing mentions the use of force, the staying under could be have been for any period of time, for 2 seconds until indefinitely. It is up to your interpretation but even if you take it as indefinate, Ed wasn't saying it was to be done aginst CW's will.

He then asks Who else is in? Nothing promoting violence in that.

He ends up saying everyone should pay up to bomb her in the pool. Again no physical contact involved. When I was growing up 'bombing' was what kids did to skylark. It was never intended to injure, it might be intimidating but it wasn't done to inflict pain.

It was Frawley who said hold her under - He is the one who should be taken to task.

[What'sinaname]

^ the thing is though, we don't know what impact upsetting someone might have. It might seem like nothing, but look at that poor school kid who basically publicly pleaded for help from being bullied.

Is it right to express your feelings if they can hurt someone?

But it took a week for anyone to realize that what was said was upsetting.

Doesn't that tell you something.

does that matter? Do you have to be upset immediately, else it's irrelevant?

I think 99% of what's happening here is bullshit and faux outrage, but, underlying all of this was a pathetic effort by the guys involved. The bad thing for Eddie is that this is no longer an isolated case of foot in mouth.

If he can't control what he says, then he should stay out of the media, or else, become a shock jock. But he has to stop flip-flopping between humanitarian and arsehole.