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BucksIsFutureCoach wrote:
If that was true why didn't Cloke open up opportunities for Blair and DeGoey to kick bags of goals in our forward line. Also I don't think Cloke would have stopped Grundy from marking, just as he didn't stop other tall defenders taking marks against him during the year. If he plays the same way for WB as he played for us this year he will struggle next year. If he buckles down with a different attitude under a new coach next year, he could be a great player again, but it will be the same familiar role he played for us and not a rucking role as you suggest (he can't ruck).
Realistically, Cloke will be competing with Cordy, Redpath and Campbell as the other KPP in the Doggies F50 along side Boyd. He's ahead of all 3 of those for 2017 I'd reckon. Hell, GF performances aside he's still ahead of Boyd. Will free up Crameri and Stringer as the 3rd tall - medium forward options, or even allow Stringer to spend time in the midfield.
Ultimately though, who actually gives a fat rats clacker about whether he'll fit into their side. It's where he wants to go and they want him. Make it happen.
ok, but why, if hes going to be as good as you say he is-I don't think his kicking will improve one iota and he will still miss soda goals-but if hes going to be that good for them, better than Boyd, then why should we get shafted for him, why should we get the dirty end of the deal, why cant we get decent compensation for him then. ?? If they want him THAT bad, then let them give us fair and decent compensation for him. We must not get duded and shafted on this, that I do know.
Firstly, do you even read what people write. Where did I say he'd be good bad or indifferent? Where did I say he'd cure his kicking issues? Look at the stats. All I said was that he's a better option than their alternative options (on form to date), and on this years results even Boyd. It was a direct response to people asking why the premiers would even want him.
Secondly, why don't we wait till the deal is done before we get our nickers in a twist about the deal.
piedys wrote:Why no plaudits to Brendan McCartney from WB in the post GF celebrations? Exactly what was he doing so wrong that saw both Griffin and Ward leave the kennel...
Ward left years before McCartney got there. Griffen saying he wanted to leave was the last straw for McCartney's coaching stint at the Dogs.
Yep, my bad - Ward an inaugural GWS player in 2012.
The way WB fans booed him in the PF, it was like he'd left only recently!
mooretreloar wrote:People are conveniently forgetting all the hard work Brendan McCartney did with their young list. He taught them the defensive side of the game, which you saw be so successful in the GF. No doubt Luke Beveridge has done a sensational job, but he came in after all the hard work was done. The list had been built, they had been taught the proper way to play, and Beveridge took full advantage of this, whilst also adding his own imprimatur on the team.
I agree Bevo is getting accolades which are partly owed to McCartney, his influence was obvious. The only thing that says to me though, is how do we get him on our coaching panel? We are rich, buy some decent coaches to help Buckley out in the areas he is not good in.
Well that's the thing isn't it?
Why no plaudits to Brendan McCartney from WB in the post GF celebrations? Exactly what was he doing so wrong that saw both Griffin and Ward leave the kennel [bad call too fellas, might I add...] to go to GWS? Even if it did instigate to the Boyd trade...
Do I recall correctly that their 2014 playing list wanted McCartney gone?
We really need to get to the truth of the matter before we go lumping him in the same game day box as Buckley, week after week...
Ward left before McCartney arrived. Would be handy on any list but grabbed the cash on offer at GWS. Edit: Beaten to it Dyso by MT.
It's not about how the players felt about McCartney, it's acknowledging that he led the list build and established the frenetic defensive mindset that underpins the way they currently play.
Other than Ward, think they're better off without Griffin, Cooney, and Jones. Higgins, like Ward opted for the FA cash and was coming off a couple of injury hit seasons and they got pick 27 for him.
And Griffin wanted out of the captaincy as much as away from the coach.
McCartney did all the grunt work teaching them defence, their recruiting staff did what they did without influence from Beveridge except from last years draft. He inherited a good list that had been well drilled in the fundamentals and put the icing on the cake.
Good luck to him.
I'm disappointed in Cloke leaving but he is leaving and it's his call. We were happy to keep him, but now he's decided he wants to go there's no point. The penny won't drop if he stays with us, god we've tried hard enough to dislodge it, it needs a new environment and the desire to prove a point that will do it.
I can see Cloke coming out breathing fire at the start of 2017, playing some good football, but I can't see him sustaining it.
Whatever good games he plays for the dogs, he wouldn't have done as good for us so lets let him go, kiss him goodbye and be ready to welcome him back in a few years as a Collingwood Premiership player
Plenty of Pies legends have finished their careers at other clubs, very few have improved.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
jackcass wrote:Other than Ward, think they're better off without Griffin, Cooney, and Jones.
Griffin would be kicking himself now i'd imagine.
Cooney, arguably the worst brownlow medalist of the century, behind Wowoeful.
Jones stinking the joint up nicely, good work.
And Grant, who wasn't ever going to knock Redpath or Crameri out of full-forward.
jackcass wrote:Higgins, like Ward opted for the FA cash and was coming off a couple of injury hit seasons and they got pick 27 for him.
And let him also be a poster-boy for other disloyal money-grabbing grubs.
jackcass wrote:
Realistically, Cloke will be competing with Cordy, Redpath and Campbell as the other KPP in the Doggies F50 along side Boyd. He's ahead of all 3 of those for 2017 I'd reckon. Hell, GF performances aside he's still ahead of Boyd. Will free up Crameri and Stringer as the 3rd tall - medium forward options, or even allow Stringer to spend time in the midfield.
Ultimately though, who actually gives a fat rats clacker about whether he'll fit into their side. It's where he wants to go and they want him. Make it happen.
ok, but why, if hes going to be as good as you say he is-I don't think his kicking will improve one iota and he will still miss soda goals-but if hes going to be that good for them, better than Boyd, then why should we get shafted for him, why should we get the dirty end of the deal, why cant we get decent compensation for him then. ?? If they want him THAT bad, then let them give us fair and decent compensation for him. We must not get duded and shafted on this, that I do know.
Firstly, do you even read what people write. Where did I say he'd be good bad or indifferent? Where did I say he'd cure his kicking issues? Look at the stats. All I said was that he's a better option than their alternative options (on form to date), and on this years results even Boyd. It was a direct response to people asking why the premiers would even want him.
Secondly, why don't we wait till the deal is done before we get our nickers in a twist about the deal.
Well I for one don't care what he does for WB if that's where he finishes up.
As far as I'm concerned we got shafted when he negotiated his 5 year deal with us. So considerate of him to say he doesn't care about the drop of money if he goes to WB. Why should he care about the money when he made so much money out of us?
Frankly, I just want to see the back of him. Bevo's is a genius (so everybody says), so let's see what he does with him next year. Can't wait to read the Buckley can't coach thread next year where our experts on Nicks analyse every Cloke stat under his new coach versus what he underachieved under Buckley's coaching.
jackcass wrote:Other than Ward, think they're better off without Griffin, Cooney, and Jones.
Griffin would be kicking himself now i'd imagine.
Cooney, arguably the worst brownlow medalist of the century, behind Wowoeful.
Jones stinking the joint up nicely, good work.
And Grant, who wasn't ever going to knock Redpath or Crameri out of full-forward.
jackcass wrote:Higgins, like Ward opted for the FA cash and was coming off a couple of injury hit seasons and they got pick 27 for him.
And let him also be a poster-boy for other disloyal money-grabbing grubs.
Except of course, the ones we recruit from other clubs.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
jackcass wrote:Higgins, like Ward opted for the FA cash and was coming off a couple of injury hit seasons and they got pick 27 for him.
And let him also be a poster-boy for other disloyal money-grabbing grubs.
Except of course, the ones we recruit from other clubs.
True dat.
The players we poach... errr... recruit, are simply exercising their rights in leaving their current hostile work environments, for the privilege of wearing our jumper, and any associated financial benefits that may or may not be inclusive with that move to our great club. Just to clarify....
Fatui Attata wrote:Bevo had all the list development done for him by McCartney with a strategic eye for the future. Buck's had Mick preparing for an assault on the 2011 flag, and nothing beyond. Hence Bucks had to turn that around. If I were to take over a team as coach, the Dogs would look much more attractive, at the time of their transition, than the Pies. Window opening (Dogs) vs window closing (us). Due to the fast tracking nature of the succession plan, I think we'll do it quicker than the Dogs. Deluded? Maybe. But, if not, there is plenty to gain for all of us!! [/i]
Huh? The dogs just did it two days ago!
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
mooretreloar wrote:People are conveniently forgetting all the hard work Brendan McCartney did with their young list. He taught them the defensive side of the game, which you saw be so successful in the GF. No doubt Luke Beveridge has done a sensational job, but he came in after all the hard work was done. The list had been built, they had been taught the proper way to play, and Beveridge took full advantage of this, whilst also adding his own imprimatur on the team.
I agree Bevo is getting accolades which are partly owed to McCartney, his influence was obvious. The only thing that says to me though, is how do we get him on our coaching panel? We are rich, buy some decent coaches to help Buckley out in the areas he is not good in.
Well that's the thing isn't it?
Why no plaudits to Brendan McCartney from WB in the post GF celebrations? Exactly what was he doing so wrong that saw both Griffin and Ward leave the kennel [bad call too fellas, might I add...] to go to GWS? Even if it did instigate to the Boyd trade...
Do I recall correctly that their 2014 playing list wanted McCartney gone?
We really need to get to the truth of the matter before we go lumping him in the same game day box as Buckley, week after week...
Actually that seals the deal for me, I reckon that would be funny fireworks to watch!
So Brisbane have picked up another Hawks trainee coach. Smart move.
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Travis might well do better with a different club/coach; at least for a while. He's smart to take a lot less money because that should reduce some of the expectations on what he can bring, initially at least.
Eventually, however, the issue of pressure will rear it's ugly head and that's Travis' achilles heel. Miss enough shots from easy scoring distance and the pressure comes.
It doesn't have to be explicit - the look on the faces of your teammates, the heckling of the crowd, the jokes on The Footy Show or The Friday Front Bar.
That's the stuff that haunts Trav. None of it will go away by changing clubs.
Bevo is obviously a good coach, but that isn't always enough. Stringer had an up and down season and then stunk it up in the GF, despite the cuddles of this weeks 'supercoach'.
It won't matter how supportive the staff are, or how much encouragement that the coach gives him - in the end Travis' demons are internal.
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