Terror attacks by Islamist groups

[stui magpie]

[Culprit]

Right Wing Governments will be elected more and more. Refugees will be kicked out and denied entry. No money for foreign aid which will create more division and unite Islam. A caliphate will happen.

[David]

Stui, in regard to the bolded section, you can find a list of attacks in the US here:

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publ ... rror_05sum

Pakistan's North west has problems but most of Pakistan is quite safe. It seems strange to seek asylum in Germany in that context.

If you're a refugee in North Waziristan, I'm not sure how much comfort it is to know that the rest of Pakistan isn't going that badly. The article in the Guardian states that 1.2 million Pakistanis have been displaced. That's a lot of people. Why would it be any stranger for a refugee from that part of the world to seek asylum in Germany than a refugee from Afghanistan, Nigeria or South Sudan?

[Mugwump]

Pakistan's North west has problems but most of Pakistan is quite safe. It seems strange to seek asylum in Germany in that context.

If you're a refugee in North Waziristan, I'm not sure how much comfort it is to know that the rest of Pakistan isn't going that badly. The article in the Guardian states that 1.2 million Pakistanis have been displaced. That's a lot of people. Why would it be any stranger for a refugee from that part of the world to seek asylum in Germany than a refugee from Afghanistan, Nigeria or South Sudan?

1.2 million is a lot of people. So is 180 million, the population of Pakistan. Why would you go to Germany rather than the 99% of your country that is apparently safe ? I think the fact that refugees from Afghanistan, Nigeria and Pakistan - all countries thousands of miles from Germany, all with relatively safe areas internally - are all trying to get to Germany says much about the motivation, and the way that asylum has become synonymous with migration, to the great cost of those really seeking asylum.

[David]

You're presuming that safe passage or resettlement is actually available. As you say, Afghanistan does have safe areas; so why are 1.5 million Afghans camping out across the border in Pakistan? Hell, even Syria has places where no conflict has occurred. Clearly it's nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be.

If we're quibbling about whether migrants in Germany from that part of the world could be real refugees, then I hope we've put that issue to bed. Some may well not be, but at least some undoubtedly are. Whether those refugees could or should be settling in countries of transit, and whether their inability to do so no longer means they're "really" seeking asylum, is a different question. I think international refugee laws are fairly clear on this.

By the way, in regard to this earlier post:

^ David, firstly you might quote fatalities rather than number of attacks if you wish to make a persuasive case.

Secondly, what happens in (say) Myanmar has a very different context to what happens on the streets of London, New York. Paris. Berlin. Brussels Boston Madrid Ankara Nice etc (referencing only the more mass-scale nihilistic murders). you may not see a disturbing pattern, but then, false equivalence makes patterns very difficult to spot.

I was asked and answered a direct question: "How many terrorist acts have been committed globally by non-muslims in the last 2 decades?". If you want to shift the goalposts, that's fine, but I'm not the one asserting any false equivalences here.

Otherwise, I agree that a terror attack in Nice by someone acting on the orders of a foreign terrorist network is different to terrorist acts committed as part of a sectarian conflict in Myanmar. Indeed, I've tried to make this very point with Skids in the past when he was posting lists that included such sectarian violence in majority Muslim countries as evidence of an Islamic agenda to destroy the world. On the other hand, pointing out Burmese attacks demonstrates that modern terrorism is not a uniquely Islamist phenomenon.

The question depends upon what exact point we're trying to make and why we're choosing to consider some incidents and not others. What, precisely, are you seeking to demonstrate here?

[stui magpie]

Stui, in regard to the bolded section, you can find a list of attacks in the US here:

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publ ... rror_05sum

Well either I'm reading that wrong or the FBI has a different definition of terrorism. I mean, The Animal Liberation Front and the Earth Liberation front are terrorist organisations?

And the bolded bit said "Extreme left wing actors". I'm sure they can make some pretty shit movies but that shouldn't really qualify as a terrorist act unless they kidnap people at gunpoint and make them watch them.

When I asked for a comparison on terrorist acts, I meant acts of violence that involve fatalities, real and intended, wounded and/or loss of liberty (kidnapping for terrorist purposes), not making shit movies or attempting to set fire to a barn to free chickens.

To be fair, I didn't define that and you found a set of data that supported your opinion. Well done.

I'm not interested in getting into a semantic battle redefining words so I'll let it go. Your opinion is set, your reality is formed. It's a different reality to mine but that's cool.

[Skids]

I don't think anything compares to Islam if you compare apples with apples.


Jihad Report
November, 2016

Attacks 231
Killed 2008
Injured 3082
Suicide Blasts 27
Countries 29



Jihad Report
Dec 10, 2016 -
Dec 16, 2016

Attacks 44
Killed 449
Injured 360
Suicide Blasts 5
Countries 12


Since Setember 11 Islamic terrorists have carried out more than 29,962 deadly terror attacks.

[Mugwump]

^ David, the terrorism under discussion in this thread obviously relates to nihilistic murder on the streets that you and I and my children inhabit. It is clearly the terrorism that Stui was talking about. There is, as he rightly points out, almost no terrorism of this nature which is perpetrated by non-Muslims. You can no doubt seek to mitigate and deflect it by arguing that other people commit terrorism in different places and very different contexts. It is such a clear act of deflection, however, that I can only ask your question back - "what precisely are you seeking to demonstrate?" - because it looks as though you are seeking a kind of extenuation or mitigation for the greatest acts of mass murder ever to happen in our civil history. If these were conducted by white extremists I doubt that you would be so keen on finding other examples of similar acts in Myanmar.

Similarly, if you cannot see the problem with 1% of people being displaced in a country where 99% are not, and then these people finding their way to a wealthy foreign country 5000 miles away to seek asylum, then it would seem to be because you do not wish to. There is nothing oversimplifying in suggesting that there is something wrong with this picture. If your side of politics continues to countenance the abuse of the asylum system for the purposes of elective immigration, then you fail genuine asylum seekers who flee from conflict to a nearby safe space. The fact that much of European and Australian public opinion is now turning against asylum as it sees it as equivalent to immigration is the very sad and dangerous and anti-humanitarian legacy of this elision.

[David]

[David]

[Morrigu]

It's a lot easier to monitor nutters if you have control of your borders!


Seven arrested as police foil planned Christmas Day terror attack in Melbourne

A Christmas Day terrorist plot targeting Melbourne landmarks has been foiled after police conducted raids across the city's north west.

Seven people have been arrested and five are in custody stopping what police chief commissioner Graham Ashton said was a potential multimodal attack at Federation Square, Flinders Street Station and St Paul's Cathedral.


Police said these men were Australian-born and in their 20s - except for one Egyptian-born man. Police said some had a Lebanese background.

Chief Commissioner Ashton said police executed search warrants in Flemington, Meadow Heights, Dallas, Campbellfield and Gladstone Park overnight.

"These individuals have been persons of interest for some period of time," he said. "They're people we have been concerned about for a period of time."

He said intelligence led police to step-up their investigation in the past fortnight

There was no suggestion of international assistance to suspected terrorists, police said.

The raid found evidence an improvised explosive device was being constructed

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/seven ... tgz90.html

[David]

There are times like these when I question my previous opposition to data retention, etc. Good work by the police in preventing this.

[Skids]

It's a lot easier to monitor nutters if you have control of your borders!


Seven arrested as police foil planned Christmas Day terror attack in Melbourne

A Christmas Day terrorist plot targeting Melbourne landmarks has been foiled after police conducted raids across the city's north west.

Seven people have been arrested and five are in custody stopping what police chief commissioner Graham Ashton said was a potential multimodal attack at Federation Square, Flinders Street Station and St Paul's Cathedral.


Police said these men were Australian-born and in their 20s - except for one Egyptian-born man. Police said some had a Lebanese background.

Chief Commissioner Ashton said police executed search warrants in Flemington, Meadow Heights, Dallas, Campbellfield and Gladstone Park overnight.

"These individuals have been persons of interest for some period of time," he said. "They're people we have been concerned about for a period of time."

He said intelligence led police to step-up their investigation in the past fortnight

There was no suggestion of international assistance to suspected terrorists, police said.

The raid found evidence an improvised explosive device was being constructed

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/seven ... tgz90.html

Seven people were arrested overnight at properties in Flemington, Meadow Heights and Dallas in Melbourne over the alleged plot, which police said was inspired by the Islamic State (IS) group

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia ... CID=HPCDHP

Wow... what a surprise

Letting all this <snip> in will eventually lead to massive bloodshed on our shores.
The bleeding hearts are responsible for this.

[Mugwump]

[Skids]