The murderous disaster of Robodebt

[David]

Has anyone here received one of these letters?

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... nce-system

Roughly 169,000 Australians, including those with disabilities, have now received letters from the government, warning them the data-matching has detected a discrepancy in their income information.

Those individuals are given 21 days to prove they are eligible for welfare received up to six years ago, or they will incur a debt and a 10% debt recovery fee. If they fail to pay, individuals are referred to debt collectors, and the human services minister, Alan Tudge, has previously threatened them with jail.

...

The data-matching process appears to suffer from two main errors.

In some cases, it has been shown to have crudely averaged out ATO information on a persons yearly income across all of Centrelinks 26 fortnightly reporting periods.

Queenslander Michael Griffin, for example, was taken to have earned $1,000 every fortnight because his annual income was $26,000.

That does not take into account circumstances where a person has only worked for part of year, and is otherwise eligible for benefits.

A Centrelink whistleblower previously told Guardian Australia that many of those contacted by the agency were simply paying the debt without question.

The source, who reviewed hundreds of cases where disputes were lodged, said only about 20 had turned out to be genuine.

Bureaucratic errors happen. But what's truly surreal is that the government is defending this catastrophic stuff-up as merely a necessary means of recovering incorrectly paid entitlements. It all calls to mind a certain dystopian film from the '80s...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvlwCSNiFp0

[Skids]

I'm sure if people don't actually owe anything they will be able to prove so and throw it in the bin.

Hopefully they catch most of the fraudsters and get OUR money back.

[David]

Again,

A Centrelink whistleblower previously told Guardian Australia that many of those contacted by the agency were simply paying the debt without question.

So we're certainly getting money back. Whether or not it's our money is another question...

[Skids]

Well they're fckwuts aren't they?!

[Dave The Man]

Government is Desperate for Money and love Targeting the Needy

[Skids]

Government is Desperate for Money and love Targeting the Needy

Needy? They're targeting thieves Dave.

[David]

Well they're fckwuts aren't they?!

If you're talking about the government, I totally agree!

[stui magpie]

I last got centrelink in 1984, I know a number of people who do get it when they shouldn't so I'm all for cracking down on it.

[Culprit]

Hmmm let's catch someone who got over paid on a singles mothers pension. We won't worry about the multinationals that don't pay any tax. Penny Pinching Liberals.

[Mugwump]

Hmmm let's catch someone who got over paid on a singles mothers pension. We won't worry about the multinationals that don't pay any tax. Penny Pinching Liberals.

The law is the law. If either break the law then the government has a responsibility to act and recoup the money. Whether they are single mothers, Starbucks or one-eyed bandits is not the point. The corporate tax law and compliance is a disgrace and should be reformed to stop the multinationals from getting away with what they (presumably lawfully) do. That does not mean that the government should wink at Centrelink fraud or misappropriation.

That said, it is not ordinarily reasonable that someone should be expected to account for payments made 6 years ago. There should be a term limit unless there is clear prima facie case of fraud. Without knowing the facts of individual cases it is impossible to know how justified these letters are.

[stui magpie]

^

The term limit is usually 6 years.

[Dave The Man]

I last got centrelink in 1984, I know a number of people who do get it when they shouldn't so I'm all for cracking down on it.

as Long as they get the Right People and Not People who Do Need the Help

[Dave The Man]

Hmmm let's catch someone who got over paid on a singles mothers pension. We won't worry about the multinationals that don't pay any tax. Penny Pinching Liberals.

The Lib thinkg that the Multinationals will give people Jobs so the Government does Stuff All and Plus they Bribe the Goverment to allow them to do what they want

No Wonder the Country is pretty Stuffed at the Moment

[David]

I don't have a problem with going after people who have rorted the system. The problem here is that they're using inaccurate, faulty data to send thousands of people who haven't done anything wrong "now prove you're innocent" penalty notices. Miss a Centrelink letter (it happens), fail to sort it out on time or fail to come up with the right documentation and you could be hit with a wrongful fine of a few thousand dollars. What's wrong with that picture?

As I said, stuff-ups happen. That's to be expected. But it's the fact that the government is acting as if everything's fine that makes this such an absurd example of authoritarian incompetence.

On Centrelink in general, I'm sure I'm not alone in suspecting that the entire system is set up to be as inefficient and unwieldy as possible. The mere act of getting in contact with them, whether face to face or by phone, is an absolute ordeal. If it's just about lack of resources, then fair enough (though that's something government has complete control over, so...). Otherwise, unless you actively believe in the virtue of making unemployed, disabled and low-income people suffer, it really shouldn't be that way.

[David]