Post Match. Pies lose to Tigers. All comments please.

[K]

...
Their significantly lower outputs whether goals, disposals, effectiveness are THE reason we have dropped so badly

Cox’s inability to take a mark has nothing to do with injuries.
Thomas unable to impact the game or scoreboard doesn’t either, as it is with the others.
...

People here always assume that one good year is a player's normal standard. (Same for the whole team.) It's just as likely to be the one good year they have by chance. e.g. I don't remember JT being as good as last year in any of his previous years.

Not just people here... Greenwood has the best year of his career at North and our club thinks that's good enough to poach him at a very high price. That last year at North may end up the best year of his career. Same with J. White. His best year was his last year at the Swans. Our club was desperate and paid overs for him.

[Pies4shaw]

Actually, Thomas was not as good as people would like to think last year. His 38 goals included only 3 in 4 finals (none in the PF or GF) and was bolstered by his 9 against Carlton and Gold Coast. He kicked either 1 or 0 goals in 16 of 24 games. He was certainly better last year than this (0 or 1 goals in 12 of 15 matches) - but that's only because he has been execrable this year. In his last 39 games - when he has been a consistent first-choice player - he has failed to get more than 1 goal in 28 games - that's reasonably awful for a small forward who gets an occasional opportunist goal and has no particularly outstanding attribute. To put this in perspective, Adelaide has just dropped an all-time great who was on track to kick more goals this year than Thomas did last year - and in fewer games (Betts already has 32 goals from 17 games).

[K]

Actually, Thomas was not as good as people would like to think last year. ...

JdG was not as good as people would like to think last year either. (But he did come good at the right time, finals time.) In the H&A season, JdG had big games playing on kids and no-namers (e.g. vs St. Kilda & Brisbane).

The forward line in most games relied on WHE & Stephenson.

[Pies4shaw]

^ Yes, you'll get no pushback from me about that, either. JDG is enormously talented but it looks to me like he plays most weeks about 70% match fit. He is the biggest, fastest, most dangerous unit in our midfield or forward-line (depending upon where he plays) and he almost never catches anyone to lay a tackle when he doesn't have the ball.

Unlike Thomas, though, as least he's hit the scoreboard every game he has played this season. That said, I think he needs to get genuinely match-fit and play in the midfield - I don't think we can afford the luxury of him playing full-forward when we have no competent clearance players other than Pendlebury and Grundy in the side.

Anyway, he isn't actually that good a forward - once again, the comparison with Betts for scoring output is not too flattering, especially for a guy who is apparently now an official AFL "superstar".

[matrix10]

We have had NO luck this yr, starting with silly little wretch Stephenson, from then on, nothing has gone well.

We weren't playing totally dominant football early on, but I am inclined to agree that the Stephenson debacle knocked us sideways. Since then, we have not played as a team, we have lost some trust in one another, we have lost confidence in one another, we are not playing for one another.

How could a betting suspension bring this about???? Because I reckon some of the players could well be demoralized and angered by it - really pissed off that they bust their guts only to have their footy goals and ambitions thwarted by the immature actions of one vital player.

I'm not having a go at Stevo here - he's young and wet behind the ears and will hopefully learn the hard way - but it could well have created some division amongst the players..... those who have understood and forgiven and those who haven't. It could even have created division amongst the coaching panel, as to how they reconcile Stevo's actions.

We are not a united club at the moment. Years from now, we may find out the real repercussions of Stephenson's suspension.

This is aside from the injury toll and all that means. Sigh.

BINGO!

Aside form the obvious on field loss of the blonde bogan, the bigger issue seems to be the complete bursting of our confidence and cohesion bubble.

Last year and early this year we played as a team that had belief in each other- first half of the year we played out every game until the end- no matter the situation (Carlton and Saints games as egs) we could count on our team working their bums off for 4 quarters.
We had our injuries through this part also- yet managed to win ugly.

Since the Stephenson and lets not forget Beams in the same week- I would say it's a reasonable to assumption that this has divided and deflated our team and sense of unity.

How the leadership respond from here on is telling.

Sidey and Pendles are not right, Howey getting back form injury and Adams struggling to get on the park- void of leadership

Jamie looks lost, Crocker has been our most damaging forward over the past two weeks, Varcs sadly looks done (dropped mark last night and looks to have lost his run and hardness), WHE patching holes in defence and JT looking like he needs some good drugs to fire him up.

We have had 19 changes over the past month and a bit-kills continuity and cohesion- players filling gaps, playing out of position, fearful of losing.

The two bogans have played a big part in this, and bad luck has played even more of a part.

Go Pies

We can win the next 4 games

[Pies2016]

Maybe Wills went to Buckley and said “ I don’t want to play in the seniors because every time I do, supporters want me back in the VFL again “

[Pies4shaw]

Wills was useless when he was brought up earlier in the season - save for 5 minutes when Grundy was off after a high hit and Wills rucked very well for 5 minutes. Perhaps he can have Cox's spot?

[shawthing]

I suspect it's a combination of things:
- Stephenson's suspension.
- Buckley's comments after WB game. His comments after that game didn't sit well with me at the time and it may have ruffled feathers more than we expected, but the responses from the team in the following weeks were terrible.
- Beams' personal issues; and
- Injuries have obviously not helped either.

Very thought-provoking post Jezza.
For a team to play at their top in AFL, we're dealing with an inordinate number of finely tuned individuals - physically, mentally, emotionally. And that's just the players!!! Let alone the variables that come with coaching staff, conditioning staff etc. It's a complex jigsaw!!!

Yes but other clubs seem to have less problem putting a premiership picture together on a regular basis! I think Collingwood has just fallen for the hype its supporters create, take our support for granted (a bit like the New York Knicks in the NBA - the richest franchise in US sport, but totally pathetic as a competitive team), and appoint "good ole boys" to positions of power. Yes, I'm looking at El Presidente!

Things have to change or we'll never see a flag in a dozen lifetimes.

[shawthing]

B: Greenwood, Dunn, Langdon

HB: Noble, Moore, Murphy

C: Aish, Adams, Stephenson

HF: Wells, Reid, Beams


Can't understand why we lost.

With respect, not many of those are walk up starts for top teams. How many would be picked for Richmond for instance? And besides, many on that list should be pensioned off for being too old, too slow, and always injured.

[Woods]

Scott Pendlebury gave a post-mortem interview on SEN this morning. Worth a listen.

(Towards the end he says the players and others in the footy dept. are getting on the piss tonight in a planned social bonding session)

Audio podcast: https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=402204

[orie]

We have had NO luck this yr, starting with silly little wretch Stephenson, from then on, nothing has gone well.

We weren't playing totally dominant football early on, but I am inclined to agree that the Stephenson debacle knocked us sideways. Since then, we have not played as a team, we have lost some trust in one another, we have lost confidence in one another, we are not playing for one another.

How could a betting suspension bring this about???? Because I reckon some of the players could well be demoralized and angered by it - really pissed off that they bust their guts only to have their footy goals and ambitions thwarted by the immature actions of one vital player.

I'm not having a go at Stevo here - he's young and wet behind the ears and will hopefully learn the hard way - but it could well have created some division amongst the players..... those who have understood and forgiven and those who haven't. It could even have created division amongst the coaching panel, as to how they reconcile Stevo's actions.

We are not a united club at the moment. Years from now, we may find out the real repercussions of Stephenson's suspension.

This is aside from the injury toll and all that means. Sigh.

I have said this from the start..the Stevo suspension may have caused a bit of a rift. It may be that some players don't believe that Stevo should have been exposed or "dobbed" in by a teammate. It was a massive penalty for something that "probably" would never have been detected..{unless it was worse than that. This may cause a trust issue among the players.
Moral is so important and we always have too many distractions at this club.
Just getting over it.

[orie]

We have had NO luck this yr, starting with silly little wretch Stephenson, from then on, nothing has gone well.

We weren't playing totally dominant football early on, but I am inclined to agree that the Stephenson debacle knocked us sideways. Since then, we have not played as a team, we have lost some trust in one another, we have lost confidence in one another, we are not playing for one another.

How could a betting suspension bring this about???? Because I reckon some of the players could well be demoralized and angered by it - really pissed off that they bust their guts only to have their footy goals and ambitions thwarted by the immature actions of one vital player.

I'm not having a go at Stevo here - he's young and wet behind the ears and will hopefully learn the hard way - but it could well have created some division amongst the players..... those who have understood and forgiven and those who haven't. It could even have created division amongst the coaching panel, as to how they reconcile Stevo's actions.

We are not a united club at the moment. Years from now, we may find out the real repercussions of Stephenson's suspension.

This is aside from the injury toll and all that means. Sigh.

I have said this from the start..the Stevo suspension may have caused a bit of a rift. It may be that some players don't believe that Stevo should have been exposed or "dobbed" in by a teammate. It was a massive penalty for something that "probably" would never have been detected..{unless it was worse than that. This may cause a trust issue among the players.
Moral is so important and we always have too many distractions at this club.
Just getting over it.

[orie]

We have had NO luck this yr, starting with silly little wretch Stephenson, from then on, nothing has gone well.

We weren't playing totally dominant football early on, but I am inclined to agree that the Stephenson debacle knocked us sideways. Since then, we have not played as a team, we have lost some trust in one another, we have lost confidence in one another, we are not playing for one another.

How could a betting suspension bring this about???? Because I reckon some of the players could well be demoralized and angered by it - really pissed off that they bust their guts only to have their footy goals and ambitions thwarted by the immature actions of one vital player.

I'm not having a go at Stevo here - he's young and wet behind the ears and will hopefully learn the hard way - but it could well have created some division amongst the players..... those who have understood and forgiven and those who haven't. It could even have created division amongst the coaching panel, as to how they reconcile Stevo's actions.

We are not a united club at the moment. Years from now, we may find out the real repercussions of Stephenson's suspension.

This is aside from the injury toll and all that means. Sigh.

I have said this from the start..the Stevo suspension may have caused a bit of a rift. It may be that some players don't believe that Stevo should have been exposed or "dobbed" in by a teammate. It was a massive penalty for something that "probably" would never have been detected..{unless it was worse than that. This may cause a trust issue among the players.
Moral is so important and we always have too many distractions at this club.
Just getting over it.

[courtza]

How would this team go against our 2010 team, thats how far off a flag we are.

Last year was all to do with an incredibly good vibe we had going, not because of our list.

That vibe is now completely gone and we are worse than our 2017 team

The Beams recruitment while exciting in the off season has been a complete disaster. He thinks he's a gangster with major mental issues to boot.

The whole team apart from Degoey and Stevo should be put up for trade

[K]

...
Yes but other clubs seem to have less problem putting a premiership picture together on a regular basis! I think Collingwood has just fallen for the hype its supporters create, take our support for granted (a bit like the New York Knicks in the NBA - the richest franchise in US sport, but totally pathetic as a competitive team), and appoint "good ole boys" to positions of power. Yes, I'm looking at El Presidente!

Things have to change or we'll never see a flag in a dozen lifetimes.

Yeah, some franchises, especially MLB franchises, do have a business model that is not set up around winning, but that's probably because so many of them have no chance of winning.

I don't know if it's taking supporters for granted. The club may be weighed down by its supporters. It stops the club being professional, which is the thing that most needs to change.