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I didn't mind, really. Didn't have to endure Ch. 9's sellathon - and Taylor's horrible commentating (or Slater's). When that was the case, I 'watched' the Tests on ABC radio.
In general, quotes from former 'greats' or present day players don't particularly interest me. They are just opinions, and we know what opinions are like.
Donny wrote:... Didn't have to endure Ch. 9's sellathon - and Taylor's horrible commentating (or Slater's). ...
Yes, a bit off topic, but it was Sky's commentary. Taylor just at breaks, Slater not at all. They say it's bad that UK doesn't get FTA (funny that our FTA gets their non-FTA), but the advantage is that the coverage is more "serious".
A little closer to the topic: Taylor did say before the first session of the First Test how shocked he was at the brown pitch. He thought it was a deliberate attempt to blunt the bowling because they were scared the batting would just get blown away.
And another random example: the media widely (and correctly, I'd say) reported before the Lord's Test that the pitch could not be anything other than very flat, because Root had attacked the pitch (without justification, as you can see in the "Poms bundled out for 85" thread) after the Ireland Test. It's groundsman intimidation.
They were right to be concerned about the Gabba pitch. Over the years it has been a graveyard for foreign teams. I remember, eg, how desperately disappointed we were when the West Indies were bowled out in 2 sessions there at the start of the 75/76 season. Fredericks, Greenidge, Rowe, Kallicharan, Richards and Lloyd as their top 6 and they only managed 214.
I meant the First Ashes Test, but it's true Oz pitches have been getting flatter and flatter. The Gabba and WACA are terrible compared with what they once were, and the MCG is bad compared with anything, past or present. Handscomb said it just doesn't deteriorate at all during a match, so the only hope is to make it green at the start. I'm not holding my breath that they'll do that for the Test, but maybe they can try it for Shield games.
Last edited by K on Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There was a time when the MCG was much worse than it is now. It was a very easy wicket to bat on until late in the game, whereupon everything started to “shoot” - back in those days, Paul Reiffel was Victoria’s most dangerous bowler, because he could make the ball “shoot through” about 6 inches above the ground, straight at middle stump. I’m not sure why anyone would want that back, unless, like me, Paul Reiffel was their favourite bowler.
Of course, a lot of this has been overcome by the general improvement in batting standards since the 1970s but, conversely, some wickets (like Adelaide) have become greatly more competitive for bowlers over the years. That’s evident from the last match - a team with an outstanding batting lineup (whatever we think about the rest of them, Warner in Australia, Marnus and Smith constitute an outstanding batting lineup) will be able to dominate a modest attack but a great attack with good variation (Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood, with Lyon for the second dig) can keep the opposition to paltry scores. Both the Test wickets so far have been outstanding - they gave genuinely good batsmen a chance but offered enough for the bowlers to take control, if they were good enough.
The old Gabba Wicket was too silly by half. If you batted first on a bad day, the game could be all over before it started. That was the case for the Windies in 1975 - after being bundled out for 214 at the Gabba, a weaker line up (Bernard Julien, a very solid number 8 at his peak, opening in place of Greenidge) put on 580 and won the Second Test in Perth by an innings. The pitch wasn’t bad, as I recall it - the Australians managed a good enough first innings on the back of a fantastic 150-odd from Ian Chappell but they lost because they couldn’t stand up to Andy Roberts, who bowled well without luck in the first innings but then took 7/54 in the second. Generally, though, apart from the Windies who, like Australia, liked the ball coming on to the bat and bouncing, Perth was a bit of a graveyard for overseas teams. It was fun for us watching Lillee and Thomson tearing holes in opposition defences but it didn’t make for much of a contest because the conditions were too favourable to Australia. It’s just a bit more even, now.
I don’t pay much attention to the old cricketers who think it was “tougher” in “their day” for batsmen. It wasn’t, typically.
Last edited by Pies4shaw on Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
People argue that if the pitch is too lively the team that bowls first has too much of an advantage. That can be true, but the same people wilfully ignore the opposite: when the pitch is too flat (and really deteriorates), the team batting first is heavily favoured unless they commit cricket suicide.
Sadly, the pitch is never deliberately too lively, but almost always deliberately too flat, and then the only question is whether it stays flat or deteriorates late in the game.
On the MCG, before the time of Reiffel's debut (I guess '88-'89, because Taylor debuted in that series, before the '89 Ashes series, right?), when Viv Richards went out for the coin toss, he looked at the green pitch and said to AB, "How can you guys beat us on this pitch?"
I was thinking about Reiffel as a Shield bowler, rather than at Test level. In any event, those figures from the 3rd Test that you’ve posted bear out my point - the wicket was a genuine contest between bat and ball for most of the match, although the Windies had the better of it (because they had the better batsmen) and then the pitch became unplayable towards the end of the game.
Pies4shaw wrote:...
I don’t pay much attention to the old cricketers who think it was “tougher” in “their day” for batsmen. It wasn’t, typically.
The only old cricketers who clearly believe everything was better in their days are Neil Harvey, who does not have a media soapbox, and Geoff Boycott, who has a newspaper column.
The commentators are simply not biased in the way you are suggesting.
Pies4shaw wrote:... In any event, those figures from the 3rd Test that you’ve posted bear out my point - the wicket was a genuine contest between bat and ball for most of the match...
Huh? That's not the point you're making, because if it is, that means you agree the pitch has gotten easier. WI first innings 280? On the current MCG pitch, that WI batting lineup would make 680.
I think you’ll find it’s the very point I was making. The Windies batted first and third against a very fine Australian attack and the Australians batted second and fourth. The difference in the game, really, over the first three innings was that Richardson and Richards got hold of Australia when conditions were at their best but the contest was then ruined by an unplayable fourth-innings pitch.
Pies4shaw wrote:... The Windies batted first and third against a very fine Australian attack...
Well, the mighty WIndies got a low score batting first.
As for "very fine Australian attack", I have at best mixed feelings. The wickets were taken by Alderman (great in England, especially against Gooch, but...), McDermott (worthy servant of Oz cricket, taker of 291 Test wickets, but...), and Steve Waugh. Ahem... Steve Waugh. The best that I can come up with is that he was a better bowler in 1988 (especially in ODIs) than he was in 1998.
Against that attack, on modern pitches, with modern bats, the WIndies would have coasted to 480, not 280.
J. Pierik's version of what Viv said (in The Age today):
"Why are you guys preparing a pitch like this, mon? You will get yourself f------ killed!"
Pierik claims "Australia were battered, bruised and beaten by Curtly Ambrose, Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh and Patrick Patterson."
If it was a current-day pitch, Viv would say:
"Why are you guys preparing a pitch like this, mon? Cricket lovers will f------- die of boredom!"
Pierik quotes the Ashes '17 captains:
'"As flat a wicket as you'll ever see," said Joe Root. Steve Smith added: "It hasn't changed over five days and I'd say if we were playing for the next couple of days it probably wouldn't change at all either. It's got to find a way to have some pace and bounce, or take some spin, or do something."'
