In the cold light of day it’s easy to see how we lost
It’s the same issues all the time when we lose
Our skill errors murder us simple as that
You can’t win games when you butcher the ball as bad as we do at times
Also it’s like the coaches have coached the instinctive play out of us. We look robotic following the same script every time we exit defence
If anyone believe Grundy won’t be flogged by Nic Nat next game is dreaming
He’s couldn’t jump over a chalk line on the ground at the moment. He’s obviously injured and our lack of faith to play without him is a huge part of our problem. How long to you play a player who’s barely able to jog without wincing in pain. He’s second efforts are miles off and his not the same player when the balls is in dispute in contests now. I actually feel for him. Because he’s paid a million a year that shouldn’t mean he has to play every week injured. Remember what we did to Josh Fraser well this could head the same way
IQ is a gem he’s exactly what our backline needed. He is everything Langdon wasn’t. He’s quick, he reads play very well, he marks well and his foot skills are way above average and he hardly makes a error (he’s direct opponent is under a goal a game)
Daicos is showing signs he could be anything now. Composure still needs to be worked on but he’s ability to cover ground and make good decisions is improving every week.
What I don’t understand is why we have changed what we did in our forward line from 2018 that was successful
In 2018 we rotate who started at FF all the time. Some times Stevo some time JDG some times Cox. We had moving parts. Cox was taking there best defender away from goal often. Cox often started at CHF leaving there FB exposed to Stephenson pace or JDG. Then we would have WHE sneak in around the back with checkers when they led up vacating the goals
We were fluid and unpredictable now we are like static and predictable
Our mids have no connection with Grundy or Grundy doesn’t speak English
Several times Adams or Pendles we’re off there man clear and Grundy won the tap and it went in the opposite direction. It’s a real issue. There’s no point winning hit outs if they are to the advantage of the opposition
I know P4S will say it’s the mids fault but with Pendles there who is one our of greatest ever players surely he isn’t in the wrong position every time when we win the tap. I have been watching Grundy closely lately and his taps go north south only. I watch players like Nic Nat who swivels his wrist to tap it in various directions Grundy is basically goal to goal he needs to learn from that
Overall if we don’t change things against west coast then our season will be over quickly and painfully
Post Match. Pies lose to Port. All comments, please.
Moderator: bbmods
We had 6 players each with less than 10 disposals on the night. Varcoe, Cox, de Goey, Stephenson, Mihocek and Thomas. You cannot win games of football with players who are that poor at finding the ball.
The important thing to appreciate is that, save for de Goey (who only managed this last night) this is not an unusual or isolated occurrence.
Cox has had fewer than 10 disposals in every game he has played in 2020. That’s 9 times he’s turned up and barely had his hands on the ball.
Mihocek has had fewer than 10 disposals in 12 games (of his total of 16) this season.
Stephenson has had fewer than 10 disposals in 4 (of his 12) games this season.
Varcoe has had fewer than 10 disposals in 4 (of his 9) games this season.
Thomas has had fewer than 10 disposals in 5 (of his 12) games this season.
Apart from de Goey, there is actually no one in that lot who can consistently win their own ball or consistently get clear enough to be used as a target.
Ultimately, it screams that in the most important part of the ground we have our consistently least competent players.
This is, of course, reflected in their scoring. De Goey, supposedly the “best” of them, has played 8 games. He has kicked either 0 goals or 1 goal in 6 of those 8 games. If you look at the end of his 2019, he has kicked 0 goals or 1 goal in 9 of his last 11 games. Varcoe has not kicked a goal in his last 8 games. Thomas failed to kick a goal in 9 of his 13 games this season. Mihocek has kicked 0 goals or 1 goal in 10 of his 16 games this season. In his two prior games (our 2 finals in 2019), he did not score a goal, either. Stephenson has kicked 0 goals or 1 goal in 7 of his last 9 games. He has managed just 6 goals in those 9 games. This is a particular concern, since he managed 7 in his first 3 games back, even though he was plainly being managed fitness-wise. Cox has kicked 0 goals or 1 goal in 5 of his 9 games this year.
These players are, of course, not the only ones who have stunk it up in the forward line this year - they just happen to be the ones who were selected to play last night.
The important thing to appreciate is that, save for de Goey (who only managed this last night) this is not an unusual or isolated occurrence.
Cox has had fewer than 10 disposals in every game he has played in 2020. That’s 9 times he’s turned up and barely had his hands on the ball.
Mihocek has had fewer than 10 disposals in 12 games (of his total of 16) this season.
Stephenson has had fewer than 10 disposals in 4 (of his 12) games this season.
Varcoe has had fewer than 10 disposals in 4 (of his 9) games this season.
Thomas has had fewer than 10 disposals in 5 (of his 12) games this season.
Apart from de Goey, there is actually no one in that lot who can consistently win their own ball or consistently get clear enough to be used as a target.
Ultimately, it screams that in the most important part of the ground we have our consistently least competent players.
This is, of course, reflected in their scoring. De Goey, supposedly the “best” of them, has played 8 games. He has kicked either 0 goals or 1 goal in 6 of those 8 games. If you look at the end of his 2019, he has kicked 0 goals or 1 goal in 9 of his last 11 games. Varcoe has not kicked a goal in his last 8 games. Thomas failed to kick a goal in 9 of his 13 games this season. Mihocek has kicked 0 goals or 1 goal in 10 of his 16 games this season. In his two prior games (our 2 finals in 2019), he did not score a goal, either. Stephenson has kicked 0 goals or 1 goal in 7 of his last 9 games. He has managed just 6 goals in those 9 games. This is a particular concern, since he managed 7 in his first 3 games back, even though he was plainly being managed fitness-wise. Cox has kicked 0 goals or 1 goal in 5 of his 9 games this year.
These players are, of course, not the only ones who have stunk it up in the forward line this year - they just happen to be the ones who were selected to play last night.
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Sicks Bux
Seeing us elect to handball at the centre bounces, when we should've been kicking it long drove me nuts, especially because so many of the handballs were either fumbled by the player who was receiving them or intercepted by Port. I was constantly saying 'Kick the effing thing!'
Last edited by Sicks Bux on Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Clifton Hill-Billy
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We lost every centre clearance after a goal and gave them easy looks with turnovers. Our forward line has been our Achilles heel all season and the contagion has spread to the midfield which is now almost as dysfunctional. The only thing Bux learnt off Malthouse was to stubbornly refuse to make changes in the game to preferred structures that clearly weren't working. Grundy solo rucking and JDG. Elliott and JDG could have swapped positions in the second quarter but Bux waited until 4 quarter to play JDG higher. Our bottom 4-6 players stink, bringing in Sier or Mayne will do nothing to change this. Neither will pick 11. We are roadkill for wet toast.
"Hey Ma get off the dang roof!"
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selkevh
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Sicks Bux
I thought he should've put Stevo to full forward and thrown JDG on to the ball.Clifton Hill-Billy wrote:We lost every centre clearance after a goal and gave them easy looks with turnovers. Our forward line has been our Achilles heel all season and the contagion has spread to the midfield which is now almost as dysfunctional. The only thing Bux learnt off Malthouse was to stubbornly refuse to make changes in the game to preferred structures that clearly weren't working. Grundy solo rucking and JDG. Elliott and JDG could have swapped positions in the second quarter but Bux waited until 4 quarter to play JDG higher. Our bottom 4-6 players stink, bringing in Sier or Mayne will do nothing to change this. Neither will pick 11. We are roadkill for wet toast.
Last edited by Sicks Bux on Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
^ So, if you take Geelong out of the equation, the odds are a bit more like those for winning with a Tattslotto quick pick.
Last edited by Pies4shaw on Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mattdally
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The gameplay is so similar - has been the same for the last 5-6 years (with the exception of 2018). Strong in contested ball, strong defensively. Smashed in loose ball, smashed in center clearances, constipated when moving the ball forward. Not sure what the answer is, but the disconnect between mids-forwards is possibly the poorest it's been in years.
Good sides continue continue to score easily when our system fails for 1 quarter. Port capitalized last night. Brisbane did the same.
Whilst we remain competitive, every game is a struggle. Outside run is missing. Adam Saad would be ideal here, wouldn't it be nice to have him kicking it to Jezza Cameron?
Good sides continue continue to score easily when our system fails for 1 quarter. Port capitalized last night. Brisbane did the same.
Whilst we remain competitive, every game is a struggle. Outside run is missing. Adam Saad would be ideal here, wouldn't it be nice to have him kicking it to Jezza Cameron?
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Abdul The Bull
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If you ever needed an example of a good game plan with excellent structures look no further than Port's game last night. They were simply everywhere the ball ended up - whether it was from their own team or from our disposals.
That, compared to our structure, demonstrates why we will never achieve success in this regime. For too long we have lamented the lack of a power forward - which may have some merit - however, until we develop a working forward line structure the power forward is academic to our success.
I've lost count of the number of times that a forward running inside 50 looks for an option rather than having a shot at goal! I understand that not every inside 50 entry should be a blast at goal but, as one previous poster noted, it appears that the instinctiveness has been coached out of us.
I am struggling to recall the last time we had a truly dominant forward line? Maybe 2011 - although that was more a team effort with high numbers of individual goal kickers and lots of midfielders contributing to the score line. Geez, even our half-back line was regularly on the scoreboard back then.
The next biggest issue staring at us in our lack of midfield depth. It seems strange to be mentioning that as, on paper, it seems first rate however, take Pendles and Sidey out and we drop off considerably. Couple that with the fact that we get smashed at centre clearances consistently and you can see the deficiencies we have in this area. With Pendles and Sidey both in the twilight of their careers we need to address this deficiency now.
However, I fear that until we make wholesale changes at the highest level we are destined for mediocrity.
That, compared to our structure, demonstrates why we will never achieve success in this regime. For too long we have lamented the lack of a power forward - which may have some merit - however, until we develop a working forward line structure the power forward is academic to our success.
I've lost count of the number of times that a forward running inside 50 looks for an option rather than having a shot at goal! I understand that not every inside 50 entry should be a blast at goal but, as one previous poster noted, it appears that the instinctiveness has been coached out of us.
I am struggling to recall the last time we had a truly dominant forward line? Maybe 2011 - although that was more a team effort with high numbers of individual goal kickers and lots of midfielders contributing to the score line. Geez, even our half-back line was regularly on the scoreboard back then.
The next biggest issue staring at us in our lack of midfield depth. It seems strange to be mentioning that as, on paper, it seems first rate however, take Pendles and Sidey out and we drop off considerably. Couple that with the fact that we get smashed at centre clearances consistently and you can see the deficiencies we have in this area. With Pendles and Sidey both in the twilight of their careers we need to address this deficiency now.
However, I fear that until we make wholesale changes at the highest level we are destined for mediocrity.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't.
Well, it's true that 2011 was a team effort, with lots of goals from the runners, as well as the forwards. That said, the FF and CHF (Cloke and Dawes) kicked 96 goals between them and the permanent forward pocket small (Krak) kicked another 35.
I think 2011 is too high a standard to demand of any team - it was an outlier (even if the end of the season was poor). Even so, in 2013, the FF and CHF (Cloke and Reid) kicked 93 goals between them and the permanent small forward pocket (Elliott) kicked another 30.
In 2018, when we did exceed 300 goals in the season, the output from the two KPFs (Cox and Mihocek) was right down to 54 goals - but we had a number of alternative avenues (de Goey 48, Elliott 42, Thomas and Stephenson 38 each). In 2019, the same pair produced 55 goals in the KPF slots. The other 4 or 5 around them produced less than they did in 2018 but they were still reliable goal-scorers. It really has been a big drop-off this year, though. It's not just down to the shorter game time - some of our "reliable" goalkickers of 2018 and 2019 have barely fired a shot in anger.
The real problem is the absence of dominant talls.
I think 2011 is too high a standard to demand of any team - it was an outlier (even if the end of the season was poor). Even so, in 2013, the FF and CHF (Cloke and Reid) kicked 93 goals between them and the permanent small forward pocket (Elliott) kicked another 30.
In 2018, when we did exceed 300 goals in the season, the output from the two KPFs (Cox and Mihocek) was right down to 54 goals - but we had a number of alternative avenues (de Goey 48, Elliott 42, Thomas and Stephenson 38 each). In 2019, the same pair produced 55 goals in the KPF slots. The other 4 or 5 around them produced less than they did in 2018 but they were still reliable goal-scorers. It really has been a big drop-off this year, though. It's not just down to the shorter game time - some of our "reliable" goalkickers of 2018 and 2019 have barely fired a shot in anger.
The real problem is the absence of dominant talls.