Post Match. Pies thumped by Cats. All comments, please.

[5 from the wing on debut]

It actually is the coaches fault if the players lose hope.

Are you sure it’s not that you simply want it to be the coaches fault ?
I can’t imagine any coach, even Bucks, preaching to throw the towel in because we’re 6 goals down at half time in an elimination final.
That’s just not how it works in the real world.

What is Bucks supposed to do, don his old footy gear and get out there and kick the faaarking ball for them ? Bucks never chucked in a game in his life, and long career, far far from it, he fought to the last bell rang, every damn game, even one sided ones. The players lost hope cos they were mentally fatigued and physically stuffed, plain as day, whereas the week before they won one of the truly great Collingwood Finals wins. NO coach could have got us over the line last night, we were rooted, stuffed, exhusted, we left it all back in WA, we had nothing more left too give.Plus the Cats were fired up, over media shit they copped, 4 finals wins in 16 finals, Sellwood said they were on a misssion to atone, they would have beaten the Tigers last night, playing like that.

Why were they physically stuffed? That sounds like a weak excuse & didn’t look at all like it was what caused the problem. They are professional athletes & they were playing their second match over about a 21 day period. They had nothing else to do but train, rest, and recover. Fully motivated teams go hard at the ball at the start of the game. If they are tired it may result in the team falling away later in the game, not two minutes in, when it was apparent that there was something badly wrong.

Why would the players be mentally fatigued? They are footballers, there’s not a lot of thought that is needed. Finals are what footballers live for. They don’t normally say “nah, can’t be bothered”.

I don’t buy the comments about how fired up Geelong were either. They were playing a final, just as we were. Why would they all of a sudden try harder to win than they had been trying before ? Geelong eased off and stopped going at 100% with more than a quarter to go. I am sure that Richmond, who haven’t choked in finals like we have, would not have been beaten by Geelong.

Keith Miller said that there was no pressure playing cricket for Australia because he compared it to the pressure of “ having a Messerschmidt up your arse”. Is it pressure that causes this team to choke and freeze in big games? We choked in the WC GF and in the GWS prelim. final. We choked against Geelong. It wasn’t just a few players against Geelong that failed. It was every single player so in that sense it was a team effort. Where does that come from? I know I was looking on from a long way away, but was Buckley actually coaching during the game or just spectating behind glass? Did he think that if he didn’t move or say anything or pick up his phone that the cameras couldn’t see him?

[Piesnchess]

^ Get real, we left all we had in WA nothing left, why the hell would we play so well in Perth, yet next week like that ?? Of course we were rooted, have you ever ever played the game ?? Look at our fixture, 3 games in 12 days, three different States, twice, only the Hawks had some a draining fixture, Cats had near 3 more rest days than us, and did not travel from Perth. The Cats did cop shit for the whole week, media laughed at them, they were on a mission as Sellwood said, they would have beaten near any side. No doubt last week u were singing our praises, now you heap shit on our team, sure it was bad, but there are reasons, we were stuffed, buggered, rooted, why the hell else would we play like that u peanut ?? Dont bother answering, im done with this thread so i wont see the garbage you post, fed up wth these pea heart fans who just love to bag the Club at any chance they can get. Im done.

[5 from the wing on debut]

^ Get real, we left all we had in WA nothing left, why the hell would we play so well in Perth, yet next week like that ?? Of course we were rooted, have you ever ever played the game ?? Look at our fixture, 3 games in 12 days, three different States, twice, only the Hawks had some a draining fixture, Cats had near 3 more rest days than us, and did not travel from Perth. The Cats did cop shit for the whole week, media laughed at them, they were on a mission as Sellwood said, they would have beaten near any side. No doubt last week u were singing our praises, now you heap shit on our team, sure it was bad, but there are reasons, we were stuffed, buggered, rooted, why the hell else would we play like that u peanut ?? Dont bother answering, im done with this thread so i wont see the garbage you post, fed up wth these pea heart fans who just love to bag the Club at any chance they can get. Im done.

You blow hot and cold, as if you have different personalities who post at different times. Pre game you are one person and post game you are another. Your posts pre-game against Geelong commenced with:

"I will think bout the Cats later next week, its at least 50-50 for us at worst i reckon" and then continued in that manner.Why would you think that?

Geelong lost to Port only because of poor goal kicking accuracy. Seventeen scoring shots for Geelong as opposed to 13 for Port. We were a mediocre team this season, playing a higher ranked team that had been good this season. Despite that, well after the loss, you then maintained that we were apparently so tired that we had no hope of winning despite trying?

That seems at odds with your post shortly after the game where you started a thread maintaining that because the players did not try, that your membership should be free next year!

Geelong did not have an extra 3 days to recover, it was two days. It doesn't help you in a discussion to use Trump's method of citing facts.

You read my post, but you didn't understand it. I have been consistent. I didn't think that we would win because we were not the better team. Simple as that. I posted that before the game.

They lost, but I think the pressure got to them and they choked. I provided reasons for why I thought that. It seems to me that it has happened in finals for 3 years in a row. In response, you rambled incoherently again and threw the toys out of the cot. As you always do.

You have asked me whether I played the game, and the answer is yes. Not at a high level though, because I wasn't good enough. I stopped many years ago, and moved to different sports as I aged. I am still an athlete and for my age I am told I am in about the top 5 percentile of fitness for the general population. I fully understand about how physical stress effects the body, how the body adapts and recovers, and how to produce the fastest and most effective recovery. recovery becomes far more important as you age. Those at the club have a far better specialised knowledge of the recovery process than I do.

Perhaps in future you can read what posters actually post, think about it properly and then respond, rather than stooping to personal slurs of the type that kindergarten children would be embarrassed to use.

[Pies2016]

The problem I have with the posters who think Buckleys time is up, is that everytime we lose, it’s always Buckley’s fault because of his coaching.
At some point, players are responsible for their own actions on the field.

When Buckley says our focus is to get our hands on the ball first and then we don’t touch the ball in first 10 mins, how is that Buckley’s fault ?
Get your hands on the ball first is a basic, simple “ don’t over complicate it “ message that worked pretty well seven days earlier. There really isn’t much more to tell a team before the start of every game and that message hasn’t changed for a 100 years .

In 15 pages dedicated to this thread, I can only remember one post that acknowledged just how good Geelong were. The Cats turned up manic and we had no answers. Sometimes you get belted simply because you cop an opposition that is totally in sync on the footy field. No coach has an answer to that, just like Cats didn’t have an answer a month ago when the Tigers smashed them ( or when the Cats obliterated Port )
Hidings happen but generally you only have to wait a week to make amends.
Sadly, we have to sit with this for 6 months.
I dont have a problem with people calling for a change on the back of a large sample and in Buckley’s case, we have one. But I do have a problem when every micro moment that doesn’t end well on the field, is always Buckley’s fault.

[5 from the wing on debut]

I am not a Buckley fan but I did not say that the loss is Buckley's fault. I said that I thought the players choked, for the 3rd year in a row. I don't know why that occurred. That happens in all sorts of sports all around the world. No-one has answers for why an entire team can do that.

I did comment on how Buckley appeared to be reacting, or not reacting to that, whilst the cameras were on him in the coaches' box.

I assume that the one post in 15 pages referring to Geelong being better than us, was my comment in my post immediately above.I posted the same thing before the game too.

[Mr Miyagi]

^^ cameras aren’t on Bucks the whole game. He was on the bench most of the game too.

I posted how good Geelong was. They pulled our pants down when we were vulnerable, and we didn’t have the ticker to pull them back up in time.

Scott hinted that the Gabba is Geelong’s Skilled Stadium away from home, it’s the right size for them to play their Skilled Stadium game. So our match committee can maybe possibly be accused of not adjusting to a Gabba game plan. But the fact is we were knackered from WC, Cats had a longer break and were fired up to rebound from their previous loss and weekly criticism. It is what it is.

[5 from the wing on debut]

Didn't Buckley go to the bench after the game was over?

I don't buy for a second the "Geelong were fired up" line of thinking. What that says is that they wanted to win more than we did. That is an inane proposition. What was quite clear is that they were switched on, and we weren't. The question is why.

The knackered argument is another excuse that I do not buy. I assume the players take their resting heart rates immediately upon waking each morning and again shortly after that, then graph those numbers. That, and a number of physical tests that I won't go into, can give a very accurate description of the physical condition of an athlete on a day to day basis and is a good guide to a proper taper for match day. it can even show whether they are about to come down with a cold's symptoms in a day or so. The players were fresh going into the Weagles game after a two week tapering period and after that game they had another 7 days to recover. To expect anyone to believe that they trained well during the week then ran out expecting to do well, then found out that they were exhausted, is just silly.

[RudeBoy]

Clearly, whether it was physical or mental, we were cooked before the first bounce. We may never really know why. I must say I've been watching my beloved Pies play since the early 60s and I have NEVER witnessed such an insipid performance. To do so in a final is deplorable.

One thing is certain, we can't simply front up again next year with the same set-up, personnel or game-plan. Change is gonna come.

I'm a great Bucks fan, so I hope he is still at the helm, but other changes are inevitable. The changes i'd make for next year are:

1. Let Harvey go and get a new midfield coach

2. Make Adams captain

3. Appoint a ruck coach

4. Let De Goey (my favourite player) go to the scum if he just wants more money.

5. Spend the summer, giving boxing lessons to Stephenson to toughen him up.

[5 from the wing on debut]

Buckley is contracted. I doubt very much that he will resign or be sacked so he will most likely be there next season.

I was a bit surprised that Buckley said what he did about deGoey just wanting more money. It doesn't help when a coach comments about a player's contractual negotiations. I understand how he has to face media questions but he has been there long enough to know how to handle that. He should have thought about how his comments influenced the potential Lynch deal. I really hope that Buckley wasn't trying to divert attention away from the loss.

[Lazza]

I was a bit surprised that Buckley said what he did about deGoey just wanting more money. It doesn't help when a coach comments about a player's contractual negotiations. I understand how he has to face media questions but he has been there long enough to know how to handle that. He should have thought about how his comments influenced the potential Lynch deal. I really hope that Buckley wasn't trying to divert attention away from the loss.

I stand to be corrected but I thought those comments were made by Eddie?

[Pies2016]

I am not a Buckley fan but I did not say that the loss is Buckley's fault. I said that I thought the players choked, for the 3rd year in a row. I don't know why that occurred. That happens in all sorts of sports all around the world. No-one has answers for why an entire team can do that.

I did comment on how Buckley appeared to be reacting, or not reacting to that, whilst the cameras were on him in the coaches' box.

I assume that the one post in 15 pages referring to Geelong being better than us, was my comment in my post immediately above.I posted the same thing before the game too.

5 F T W O D, I wasn’t directly aiming my previous post at you but obviously you are part of the current conversation. All good.

I’m sure there were one or two posts praising Geelong but you know what I mean when compared to the 15 pages of negativity ( and that’s understandable off such a poor showing ) virtually all aimed at Buckley.

The game was over so quickly, any moves were nothing more than shifting deck chairs on the titanic. No plan A, B, C or D is ever going to work if you don’t have the ball in your hands in the first place. The possessions differential might yet be a finals record.

It’s funny how everything is Bucks fault but you wont hear or read anyone praise Bucks for the development of particular players. ( Rudeboy is a bit of an exception )
This year Moore and Adams were both first time A A s. They have only ever been coached by Bucks during their time at Collingwood. Daicos and Quaynor have been huge improvers but you will struggle to find any acknowledgement of Bucks role in their development on here.

On the flip side, you won’t have to look far to see that Bucks is the obvious blame for Grundy and Stephensons woes.
I have no problem reading criticism of Buckley but I will continue to remain bemused by the lack of objectivity or balance that comes with it.

I get it, we live in a world where social media platforms have become a haven for negativity and agenda driven criticism. But surely that’s nothing that a little much needed balance and objectivity cant fix.

[5 from the wing on debut]

I was a bit surprised that Buckley said what he did about deGoey just wanting more money. It doesn't help when a coach comments about a player's contractual negotiations. I understand how he has to face media questions but he has been there long enough to know how to handle that. He should have thought about how his comments influenced the potential Lynch deal. I really hope that Buckley wasn't trying to divert attention away from the loss.

I stand to be corrected but I thought those comments were made by Eddie?

Eddie may have but Buckley definitely did.

[PyreneesPie]

Going through some of these last few pages of comments, I find that the only one I can subscribe to is that of Piesnchess. Fair dinkum, all most want to do is pick through every thing that Bucks said or did or didn't do in order to place blame, so they can assuage their disappointment. Sometimes, you just gotta suck it up, because sh%t happens for nebulous reasons.
Also, 5 from the wing, the Cats had virtually 3 days' prep on us, because one of those days was not spent sitting on a bloody plane!!!!
Lastly, some here need to either admit they have little knowledge of psychology and how it interacts with the body, especially in regard to motivation and peak performance.

[PyreneesPie]

^ I would like to add the post from Pies2016 as one which I also subscribe to. Also RudeBoy thanks for "moving on" and making constructive suggestions.

[doriswilgus]

If you look at the stats for the game it shows just how far off our best we were that night,We only had 200 possessions for the whole game.When did that ever happen before?I can’t remember such a low possession count before.16 players,yes 16 players,had ten possessions or less.That’s unheard of as well.Pendelbury had 14 possessions and no clearances as well.That has never happened before either.

Clearly,the players were stuffed,physically and mentally from the game in Perth the week before .It’s the only possible explanation.There’s no way known that Geelong are a 68 point better side than us.We’ve beaten them the last two times we’ve played them,so it’s not as if they have the wood on us.The way we’re played the other day was almost identical to how we played against Melbourne earlier in the year when we were physically stuffed after playing our fourth game in 14 days.Clearly exhaustion was a factor in both performances.