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qldmagpie67 wrote:I don’t want this to sound a Buckley v McRae debate but I’ll pose this question
Do you think because Buckley was so versatile being able to play equally well forward middle or back that he assumed other players should be able to do the same ?
McRae was a small forward who knew his role and played it well in his team and might view things differently
It’s only a observation but experiences shape opinions and that might have shaped Buckley’s view to players swapping and changing roles
I agree. Nathan could actually do just about anything on a football field in more or less any position. I remember watching him moved to centre half forward in a game (that we lost) against St Kilda at Waverley one day. He played like he was born to be a CHF and was plainly unstoppable (except that we couldn't get enough of the ball to let him do his thing). Another day, he got 3 Brownlow votes taking Wayne Carey to the cleaners, playing CHB against North at the MCG. I'm not sure having that kind of exquisite and extensive (and practically limitless) talent helps a coach sort out who can and can't play a role. I'm not wanting to start a coaching debate, either - but it must be hard to distinguish between what is down to "a lack of skill" from a player and what is down to "a lack of effort" if, deep down, you know that you could have done whatever was asked of you, any time your old coach asked you to.
Mate we finally found some thing we can agree on
Reason I posed the question was I remember vividly Matthews saying Buckley was the most single minded determined player he had met
He also said he didn’t know this translated to coaching when you made the difficult look easy and he was also known as a player who demanded those around him be at the same level
That ingrained mentality doesn’t leave you it’s always there deep down in your physique
I’m not knocking him he did his best nearly got us one in 2018 it’s just a observation
Anyways enough of this lets get back to bragging about our efforts and plotting the crows demise next week
Charlie Oneeye wrote:I just wish to table another measure.
In another world, people make mistakes. The measure of performance is who gets it right more.
A backman can kick within a 5 metre radius, and it's a great kick... (or not), but the onballer couldn't hit the side of the barn.
Last night, in the last second… Pendles decided to kick it to Cox… hitting the Saint defender on the chest. This happens a lot... not just Pendle's... all players.
It's good to see Adams getting some Kodu's.. he has improved his kicking, for sure... but IMO he never deserved the level of outcry he used to get.
His pass to Elliott in the second was an absolute beauty.
I know that I always have my heart in my mouth when Moore tries short passing. Prefer him streaming out of the backline and letting loose with long bombs.
* Lipinski B.O.G and shrewd recruiting
* Mihocek 3, Ginnivan 2 and Henry 2 goals = 7 goals represents progress
* DeGoey professional... keep it up
* McCreery no talent whatsoever but tackling machine
* Madgen still flawed, shaky and a liability
* Cox represents us playing with 21 players only
* Crisp disappointing in new midfield role
* Nick Daicos solid beginning
* Howe: welcome back
* T Brown and Bianco disappointing
Next week:
In:
Krueger
F Macrae
WHE
Out:
Cox
Bianco
T Brown
Professional???? What a joke. Just admit you were wrong. He is a star! It’s obvious he is loved by him teammates. Only you and a couple of others so called oies fans don’t support him.
Here is what the AFL website had to say and I quote.
“SIX MONTHS after an off-season incident in America threatened to end his career at Collingwood, Jordan De Goey rewarded the club's faith in him, producing a dominant display to help the Magpies bank four premiership points on the first Friday night of the season.
While almost all the focus was on the debut of father-son draftee Nick Daicos, after the son of Collingwood icon Peter delivered 27 touches in one of the most hyped first games in recent memory, St Kilda couldn't find a way to contain De Goey, who finished with 27 disposals, 12 score involvements, five clearances and 2.3 in the 17-point win at Marvel Stadium.“
Lip in ski had a great debut and accumulated a lot of stats but only a fool or someone with uncontrolled bias or an agenda would rate his game over the match winning performance by DeGoey!!!!
I’m so glad when people reward your faith! Here it is fairly obvious this is the case.
As the Black Keys sang, you must be a "lonely boy" to Mick Gayfer tag and respond to every post I submit. It must be boring for most Nicksters. So all I'll reply with Eric is GO PIES!
CaptainSnooze wrote:INXS88
* McCreery no talent whatsoever but tackling machine
Did you see his set shot for goal from 40 go through the middle? Most of the league can't do that.
Play of the night (for me): 3rd quarter, half back flank and Saints going forward. McCreery chases and tackles Hill, the ball spills out, McCreery chases loose ball, bumps Saints player off it, picks up cleanly and executes handball to teammate. Pies go forward and have shot on goal (can't remember if we kicked it.)
He won't be a star, but he has talent.
Low talent but tackling forward pressure machine. His fresh air kick may have highlighted his failings. He shall be that typical 21st or 22nd player picked or not each week
Let’s revisit this topic in about 3 months when we will have a much clearer idea than after the first round of the season dude.
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine!
Big T wrote:Grundy played a team game and i feel he is being asked to do things differently under fly. It's no longer all about him and some supporters need to move on as well. Cracks me up that those who crucify sidey on a regular basis note his brilliance last night by not mentioning him. Well played.
Onwards and upwards pies. Finally playing like a team.
Yes. This continuing thing with Grundy is weird. We play West Coast and Grundy has routinely taken NicNat to the cleaners, blown him up and monstered West Coast physically but people have argued that the influence of ruckmen at centre bounces is the only thing that matters. So, we start a season with a new gameplan, win the centre clearances 18 to 9 - and the scoring difference from centre clearances was specifically more than the difference between us winning and losing the game - and some people want to describe our gun ruckman as being "thrashed" by Marshall. It's hilarious re-watching the Foxtel coverage - the commentators' view was that Grundy was "dominating" in the centre (their word, not mine). We kicked a surprising number of goals within 20 seconds of elapsed play from a centre bounce for a team whose ruckman was "thrashed".
You can tell it's all nonsense, of course because the usual trolls haven't turned up to post about Grundy and - as you rightly observe - the response of many seems to be to acknowledge greateness merely by not being churlish about it.
On that last note, one thing that does require special mention is Adams' game. We had 18 centre clearances and he had 8 of them (and, I think, 11 stoppage clearances in total). For a team that couldn't buy a centre clearance in 2021, his contribution was sensational.
The centre structures depend on all of the people who are in there. I don't think Adams has suddenly become a different centre clearance player after all these games. But having big, dangerous and pacy players around the pack - especially ones who have been instructed to get the ball and run forward - helps everyone who is in that centre square. De Goey, Elliott, Lipinski, Elliott and Grundy - all looking to get the ball and move forward from the square - is a whole more dangerous thing than anything we've dished up from the centre square since Pendles and Sidey started to slow up.
St Kilda's run in the third happened after we'd banged on 5 and Grundy spent 5-10 minutes on the bench. After he came back on they had the momentum and kicked another couple. But back in the 4th it was different after we reset. He only rested for just over 2 mins in the last. He was a beast in the square contests last night and the bullshit frees against him helped to keep the Saints in it.
qldmagpie67 wrote:
On a side note P4S question
Am I misreading or misunderstanding your post re centre clearance work ?
So the way I read it is
If we win centre clearances it’s because of Grundy if we lose them it’s because our midfield is useless ?
Other winning the hit outs Grundy did basically not much tonight
His hit outs weren’t always to advantage but the work of the midfield made them look good especially Adams with his 11 clearances
He wasn’t dominate around the ground Marshall more than matched him in that area if not beating him
He had a team high 7 changers and 4 frees against as well as 6 dropped marks (only held 2 of 8 when he got hands first on ball)
He has played far better games but for me this is actually a positive it shows we have found a way to win and win well without having a dominate ruckman
I concur with your assessment, together with the statistics you cite, qldmagpie67, in that Grundy was decisively outmarked by Callum Wilkie and Mason Wood, who are both four inches shorter than him; conceded a stupid and blatant free kick and automatic goal to Jack Hayes in a ruck contest near Collingwood's goal; handballed straight to the boundary line on the wing to concede an equally blatant free kick; and had a fresh-air kick when caught with the ball in a passage of play involving Tyler Brown --- to name a few of his inglorious moments.
^ Perspective is a funny thing, Cam. I made the point in the game thread that the St Kilda run-on started on the back of Grundy going off for a rest and there was a bit of a pile on: viewtopic.php?t=90125&postdays=0&postor ... &start=210. There always is. Sometimes, it feels like Collingwood supporters resent having truly great players in our jumper and much prefer "neat" footballers.
Congratulations to Fly and to the team for producing such a fantastic transformative game. I could hardly believe that this was the same Collingwood. The energy, the free wheeling risk taking through the corridor, was truly exhilarating to watch.
The will to reset and regain the upper hand in the final quarter was massive as well.
This is such a wonderful, wonderful way to begin the year.
There was so much to like. Here were my highlights:
1) I was so impressed with Patrick Lipinski. He is just what we needed. His delivery and ball use is razor sharp and he runs forever.
2) I thought our young players were fantastic in F50. The tackling pressure was immense, McCreery is a beast. Some say he has no talent. Well that kind of tackling mania is a talent in itself. We kept the ball in our F50 ferociously due to our F50 pressure, and McCreery contributed a large part to that.
3)Ollie Henry has alot of talent.
4) Nick Daicos, fantastic debut. He is already comfortable at AFL level.
5) Our tackling was brilliant. I did not see any broken tackles all night.
6) Sidey had a brilliant game. I was so happy to see him play so well. He sis still such an important player for us. The addition of Lipinski to our midfield will surely lighten his midfield burden and allow him to more freedom, like we saw last night.
7) JDG's excellent performance after his tumultuous preseason
8) Pendles statement after the game that the entire team had embraced the new game style.
9) Fly's wonderful first presser, and his warm and affirmational comments about JDG.
I am looking forward to watching our team's progress throughout 2022. I think it will be an exciting ride.
Mc Creery huh!!! Go to the Collingwood website and check All Goals video & see his work both kicking goal tackling and deft hand pass,s to set up chain to goals
