This is an unofficial Bulletin Board - owned and run by its users. We welcome all fans of the Mighty Collingwood Football Club.
Ad blocker detected: Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors. Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker on our website.
RudeBoy wrote:......ummmm.......perhaps Madgen is the 'forgotten' forward. He is currently our best performing forward in the VFL, kicking 5 goals against Willy.
This is crazy!!
How can we be expected to teach forwards how to lead if they cannot even fit into the one team??
I didn't see the VFL game but it's hard to look at the stats and not be impressed by the performance of Madgen. To his credit he refuses to die wondering.
Still, as someone who is very much viewed as a blue collar defender (only amplified by the emergence of Murphy) was there any goal or mark that stood out and wasn't just the result of hard work and a mature body? While guts and determination should be admired and total production be considered as we've seen with both Brown brothers this season dominating at VFL level doesn't necessarily translate to AFL.
Then of course we have to consider Madgen has 2 AFL career goals to his name and we have little knowledge of his capacity to play any role beyond that as a defender at AFL level.
I don't know about anyone else but I find myself becoming increasingly frustrated with Hoskin-Elliott.
While his season has been solid by his career standards he continued what has become a nasty habit for him IMO in the first quarter against Melbourne and he can be a momentum killer in a year momentum is king.
In that first quarter and faced with a golden opportunity to mark at the top of the goal square he once again failed to complete an overhead mark when he had the sit on the opposition. If this was a rarity I wouldn't even mention it but it's happened time and again since his 2018 season when his marking was a highlight. Only Cox would rival WHE when it comes to the gap between being able to bring down a beauty to dropping a pud.
It should be noted that Hoskin-Elliott kicked 8 goals in his first 9 games of the season, while he went goalless in 7 of his next 8 matches. His influence has waned.
The last 11 weeks have been fantastic but I feel some people have become so high on us winning the close ones they think it will last or have lost perspective of just how fine the line was between us sitting in 2nd place or being outside the 8.
On average our winning margin these past 7 weeks was 6.42pts.
What we've witnessed this season is a once in a lifetime moment, enjoy it, soak it up but I remain convinced we aren't so good we should be so flippant to believe that Henry and what he can do well shouldn't be of more importance than what he still needs to improve on.
Honestly what recently turned 20yo with little more than 20 games under his belt still doesn't have flaws?
Personally I'd rather focus on his obvious talent, marking ability, a capacity to generate shots on goal and the potential he's shown to ignite during a game and influence an outcome in a short space of time.
The first glimpse of that potential probably came in his most embarrassing display of the season in round 9 when he couldn't hit the side of the barn with his goal kicking.
Still, on a night our side was flogged by last years grand finalist he had a period where he was the only Collingwood forward who looked anywhere near the level. Unfortunately 3 points (and one OOF?) was his reward. In the round prior against Richmond he managed 2.2 in another poor loss.
The following week against Fremantle was a different story however and when he found himself entering the match due to a substitution he helped take away the game from the Dockers with 4.1 goals on a damp day.
Next round it was Carlton, a win by 4pts and he was the leading goal scorer again with 3.1. Next match it was 2.2 in our 4pt victory over the Hawks.
He kicked a total of 3.3 in the games against GWS and the Gold Coast which were won by a combined total of 16pts.
All up he's generated 21.15 from 13 games, gone scoreless just once and goalless twice. He's made a valuable contribution in a season where every single goal has never counted so more in so many games.
So what now?
For mine any team that's going to win this years flag will have to find a way to beat Geelong (perhaps twice) and that shapes as no easy task.
Outside of their experience, hardened bodies and new found speed they have the absolute luxury of knowing that their two key forwards will probably provide them with 6 goals combined on an average day. Last time they played us that number was 9 goals combined.
That's a lot to overcome and the only way I can see us kicking a winning score is to overwhelm their defence with a multitude of forward talents and one of those talents should be Henry.
For mine what Henry has in common with the likes of McCreery, Ginnivan and Johnson is not only the talent to hurt an experienced opponent at any moment but also the vulnerability of inexperience which means you have to expect fluctuations in output from week to week or quarter to quarter.
It's that vulnerability that forms part of the reason why I want Henry recalled because not only does it serve as greater insurance against any of those young and/or inexperienced forwards having an off day it also comes with the potential upside of exciting talents all fulfilling their potential during periods of games and blowing a team apart.
While some will continue to focus on his diminishing returns across his last 4 games I will say to them that he's young, this should be expected and his output was not that different to Ginnivans between rounds 17 to 19. I'll then remind people he's still kicked as many goals as the far more experienced and lauded Elliott. He's going alright.
When people want to bring up his tackle average of 1 then I'll question whether him tackling 1 less on average than Mihocek per game or .5 than Ginnivan is of more importance this season than the 1.5 goal or 2.75 SOG average he can potentially provide.
Finally if people are still in doubt then take a look at his mark in the VFL this weekend, remember the talent contained within him and that it's been seen at AFL level this year.
Now ask yourself if you really want arguably the best young talent we have outside of Nick Daicos sitting on the sidelines come finals.
swoop42 wrote:I didn't see the VFL game but it's hard to look at the stats and not be impressed by the performance of Madgen. To his credit he refuses to die wondering.
Still, as someone who is very much viewed as a blue collar defender (only amplified by the emergence of Murphy) was there any goal or mark that stood out and wasn't just the result of hard work and a mature body? While guts and determination should be admired and total production be considered as we've seen with both Brown brothers this season dominating at VFL level doesn't necessarily translate to AFL.
Then of course we have to consider Madgen has 2 AFL career goals to his name and we have little knowledge of his capacity to play any role beyond that as a defender at AFL level.
Worth a shot I reckon, and these 2 weeks would be the time to try it out. I'm not as critical of Madge as some others - thought he was doing ok earlier this year when he was in the side. If he can perform as a forward then we'd cause some serious matchup headaches for oppositions, with three medium-tall forwards in Checkers, AJ and Madge, each of whom would be solid overhead, at ground level and at pressuring.
I mentioned in a post on the Sydney game that Henry was a chance for inclusion with Bianco to either replace WHE or be the Medi-Sub. Having read the analysis by Swoop42 I'm now convinced we need to play Ollie Henry this week and give WHE a week to recover from his injury.
Would be even more encouraged to play Ollie Henry if he signed a contract to commit to Collingwood this week for the next couple of years.
Madgen was clearly our best player on Saturday
Strong leads and marks and superb kicking
What is obvious being a the ground is how much of leader Madge is onfield - always directing players and encouraging.
I really like Henry - he has shown he could be anything- yet he really doesn’t do enough- even in the VFL he doesn’t dominate/
Ends up on the end of a few and will usually have a patch of a few minutes where he looks like a superstar- yet for the most part looks ordinary.
It’s a tricky one-
Madge is the ultimate team man who would play whatever role he is asked and give 100% all game- yet he has his limitations as we are all too aware.
Henry can turn a game in 5 minutes - or he can go missing for an entire game.
I’m glad I’m not the one making the decision
Potential match winner - a bit of an all or nothing
Madgen earned the call. Selection integrity. Henry is a good player but it is not clear to me that he is the finished article. At this stage of the year, I’d give Jack a go. He has not been tried as a forward and he brings a good balance of concentration, pressure, height and flexibility.
While Henry has more natural talent, what impresses me about Madgen, particularly as a potential finals player, is his physicality and hardness. He is a warrior. I can see him crashing a few packs, Checkers style, and providing opportunities for other forwards. As he has also played a few games on the wing, I reckon he could well come in to replace WHE.
One of the main reasons why we have won 11 in a row is our defensive effort. Henry is a super talent but we cannot ignore the importance of a defensive mentality. If he doesn't have the tank or the mindset then Henry should not play.
Hats off to Magden for his last couple of games. However, the side we played on the weekend was barely VFL standard. They were hopeless so we cannot get carried away with that game..
"You must be a parking ticket, cuz you got fine written all over you" Glen Quagmire
I love Madge's leadership in the VFL. He's vocal, he's physical and gets the boys up and going. He's a classic "run through a brick wall" for the team player.
I also love the idea of having a swingman who can play both forward/back.
However, at this stage, Henry has proven that he can deliver as a forward at the highest level against quality opposition. Madge, on the other hand, has kicked goals against Williamstown and the Southport Sharks.
