Farewell #33 Jack Ginnivan

[piedys]

Absolutely true all those posters (P4Shaw), (Stui) and others, who have argued that Ginni was pushed out by us.
It is obvious that if we had wanted to keep him, he would still be with us.
This was no "act of betrayal" by Ginni.

Well... if the club had wanted to dispose of him, surely he wouldn't have been selected for any of the finals?
And surely his name would have been floated on day one of the trade period, not in the final 24 hours?
As we have said, there is **** going on behind the scenes that we are just not privy to.
We call rant and rave at each other over the subject all we like, but it will achieve nothing.

It was our decision, for reasons I don't fully understand, that he was not necessary to our plans going forward.
The media played up Ginni's childhood romance with Hawthorn as clickbait.
The venom directed at Ginni for "betrayal" is just so wrong.

But it's what divisive people like JG enjoy; causing angst amongst his peers.

[Newelly]

Absolutely true all those posters (P4Shaw), (Stui) and others, who have argued that Ginni was pushed out by us.
It is obvious that if we had wanted to keep him, he would still be with us.
This was no "act of betrayal" by Ginni.

Well... if the club had wanted to dispose of him, surely he wouldn't have been selected for any of the finals?
And surely his name would have been floated on day one of the trade period, not in the final 24 hours?
As we have said, there is **** going on behind the scenes that we are just not privy to.
We call rant and rave at each other over the subject all we like, but it will achieve nothing.

It was our decision, for reasons I don't fully understand, that he was not necessary to our plans going forward.
The media played up Ginni's childhood romance with Hawthorn as clickbait.
The venom directed at Ginni for "betrayal" is just so wrong.

But it's what divisive people like JG enjoy; causing angst amongst his peers.

I agree, he enjoyed antagonizing people about his trip to the races even though his gf performance was poor and that performance didn't warrant such defiance of public perception.

His post gf behaviour appeared arrogant as the gf result was the work of a number of his teammates but not Jack to any significant degree.

[think positive]

totally agree

[K]

Well given we just gave up a first and second round pick for a small forward, yeah, I’d definitely be not taking anything less than a first rounder for Ginni.

I'll have to find the AFL points calculator to see what Freo's booty comes to. Surely not a top-10 pick, right??

I mean, when Big Joe went to Brissy, Essendon got pick 7. Not many folks are gonna say Jack is worth the same as Big Joe.

There’s your problem, you’re trying to compare free agency to trades.

If Joe Daniher was traded they’d have got a lot more. If Schultz as a free agent, Freo would have got a third round pick.

Well, first, afl.com.au's headline was that the Daniher compo was a "massive win" for Essendon.


And look at trades then... Whadabout Ollie Henry? D'ya reckon Jack is better than Ollie? (Media'd say no way!!) The Hawks were part of that, but Geebung in total gave up Cooper Stephens and pick 25 to get Ollie.


And in the other direction... Bobby Hill? D'ya reckon Jack's better than Bobby? Pies gave up a (bit less than a) future 2nd-rounder for Bobby.

[Pies4shaw]

AFL Tables records the number of kicks had by Collingwood players in Grand Finals from 1966 on.

I was thinking about the stupid list someone posted above of players "more deserving" of a premiership medal than Jack - and it surprised me, not least because it included names of some perennial chokers.

Anyway, just for some balance, here's a list of Collingwood players who had less than 6 kicks in a Grand Final:

2023:
Frampton, Murphy, Darcy Moore, Lipinski and Cox

2018:
Goldsack, Greenwood, Grundy and Aish

2011:
Fasolo, Jolly, Blair, Reid, Tarrant, Krak, Dawes and Leigh Brown

2010:
In the draw, Beams, Leon Davis, Nathan Brown, Ball, Pendlebury and Blair
In the replay, Goldsack, Travis Cloke, Dawes and Nathan Brown

2003:
Walker, Kinnear, Jason Cloke, Lonie, Lokan, Holland, Cole and Rhyce Shaw

2002:
Leon Davis, Steinfort, Molloy, Presti and Scotland

1990:
Banks, Manson, Crosisca, Gavin Brown and Peter Daicos

1981:
Brewer, Allan, Lovell, Cooper, Peter Moore and Atkin

1980:
Low, Barham, Wearmouth, Stewart and McCormack

1979:
Derek Shaw, Banks, Ireland, McCormack and Carlson

1977:
In the draw, Bond, Betts and Worthington
In the replay, Betts, Ireland, Worthington, Picken, Gordon and Bond

1970:
Heard, Watt and Clifton

1966:
Steer, Henderson, Boyne and Searle

[Piethagoras' Theorem]

Very surprised that Crosisca, Gavin Brown and Peter Daicos all had less than 6 kicks in 1990. On further inspection, interestingly enough, Daicos and Brown had 3 handballs, Crosisca had 2 and the 3 of them kicked 2 goals each

[lazzadesilva]

Is Derek Shaw the only player who didn’t get even one possession in any GF?

[Piesnchess]

^ Shane Woeful Woewodin says hello. !

[stui magpie]

^

Cam Mooney IIRC in his first with Norf.

[Pies4shaw]

Is Derek Shaw the only player who didn’t get even one possession in any GF?

Leon Davis equalled that stunning achievement in 2002.

[David]

Woewodin had 13 disposals in the 2003 grand final (9 kicks, 4 handballs). Apart from Derek Shaw in 1979, the only other two Collingwood players who’ve recorded 0 disposals in a grand final since the interchange system was brought in were Ross Brewer in 1981 and Leon Davis in 2002.

Here are the lowest total disposal tallies by Collingwood players in grand finals since 1978:

4: Ricky Barham (1980), Jason Cloke, Ben Kinnear, Ryan Lonie (2003), Alex Fasolo* (2011), Nathan Murphy** (2023)
3: Denis Banks (1979), Jarryd Blair** (2011)
2: Ian Low (1980), Carl Steinfort (2002), Matthew Lokan (2003), Billy Frampton (2023)
1: Jarrod Molloy (2002), Tristen Walker (2003)
0: Derek Shaw (1979), Ross Brewer (1981), Leon Davis (2002)

*starting sub
**subbed off

[Kingsofclutch]

Is Derek Shaw the only player who didn’t get even one possession in any GF?

Neon Leon as well sadly, although he did lay 3 tackles.

Big Derek did have one hit out but don't remind me of that GF, we lose it by less than a kick and Craig Stewart who has averaged 1.4 goals all year gets dropped for Big Derek, disastrous call, madness.

[SwansWay]

AFL Tables records the number of kicks had by Collingwood players in Grand Finals from 1966 on.

I was thinking about the stupid list someone posted above of players "more deserving" of a premiership medal than Jack - and it surprised me, not least because it included names of some perennial chokers.

Anyway, just for some balance, here's a list of Collingwood players who had less than 6 kicks in a Grand Final:

2023:
Frampton, Murphy, Darcy Moore, Lipinski and Cox

2018:
Goldsack, Greenwood, Grundy and Aish

2011:
Fasolo, Jolly, Blair, Reid, Tarrant, Krak, Dawes and Leigh Brown

2010:
In the draw, Beams, Leon Davis, Nathan Brown, Ball, Pendlebury and Blair
In the replay, Goldsack, Travis Cloke, Dawes and Nathan Brown

2003:
Walker, Kinnear, Jason Cloke, Lonie, Lokan, Holland, Cole and Rhyce Shaw

2002:
Leon Davis, Steinfort, Molloy, Presti and Scotland

1990:
Banks, Manson, Crosisca, Gavin Brown and Peter Daicos

1981:
Brewer, Allan, Lovell, Cooper, Peter Moore and Atkin

1980:
Low, Barham, Wearmouth, Stewart and McCormack

1979:
Derek Shaw, Banks, Ireland, McCormack and Carlson

1977:
In the draw, Bond, Betts and Worthington
In the replay, Betts, Ireland, Worthington, Picken, Gordon and Bond

1970:
Heard, Watt and Clifton

1966:
Steer, Henderson, Boyne and Searle

Lots of false equivalences here. You created an arbitrary 6 kick stat (because Jack had six kicks in the GF) to make a point claiming balance. So are you really looking at a stat sheet and ignoring all the additional metrics and 1%ers? I mean when you are listing defenders who are stoppers to help illustrate your point, I think you are grasping at straws. Yet oddly enough you bagged the crap out of the idea of us recruiting Tom Mitchell last year because according to you he was a spud. So if Tom’s useless possessions were worthless to you (at Hawthorn), based on your stat sheet logic, crude possession numbers either matter or they don’t. So the player you mocked was the difference between us winning a premiership or falling short with our bleeding at centre clearances or wasn’t he? Wait you mocked Tom and Bobby early on. You’re on a roll

Anyhoo, I know you were a fan of Jack’s but maybe it’s time to let it go now that we let him go. Two years running, we recruited two upgrades on Jack which is a clear message from the club of the level they wanted from him. If they wanted Jack he would’ve stayed.

[Newelly]

I agree it is an arbitrary stat and ignores score involvements and the trajectory of Ginnivan's senior AFL career.

Kicked 40 goals when his ducking was allowed but now if Jack was decapitated in a tackle his next of kin wouldn't get the free kick.

Also, the criticism of Davis in 2010 sometimes ignores hr kicked a crucial last qtr goal in that draw. In a close match Jack's kicks were largely insignicant

Ultimately, compare Jack to Charlie Cameron's 7 disposals, 4 kicks and 3 goals on gf day...

Nothing more to be said. Makes the most of limited opportunities

[stui magpie]

Look, people feel the way they feel, but at the end of the day this was a business transaction. Someone left one employer for another with the blessing of the former employer who made no effort to keep them.

Getting angry about it and assassinating his character isn't helpful or healthy. Let it go, it's done.

He is, was and always will be a Collingwood Premiership player. He's moved on, so should supporters.