Transgender athletes back on the agenda

[Culprit]

It's an absolute cluster as multiple bodies disagree on whether they are male or female. Does one boxer have an advantage over the other? We have weight divisions for that reason. With the RW media up in arms, I am starting to think this is just an agenda, and as usual let's ignore the science.

[Skids]

Yes, we have weight divisions. Tim Tszyu is about 70kg. There isn't a woman alive at 70kg who could throw a punch with half the power of Tim.

We had a few pretty sharp girls in the gym I trained at and their punches are equal to those of little boys.

Why there can't just be a whole separate 'division' for those who are not 100% man or woman is the baffling issue. This could so easily be implemented, yet we still have this controversy. Where are all the women's rights activists?

[think positive]

Yes, we have weight divisions. Tim Tszyu is about 70kg. There isn't a woman alive at 70kg who could throw a punch with half the power of Tim.

We had a few pretty sharp girls in the gym I trained at and their punches are equal to those of little boys.

Why there can't just be a whole separate 'division' for those who are not 100% man or woman is the baffling issue. This could so easily be implemented, yet we still have this controversy. Where are all the women's rights activists?

It’s just common sense really isnt it?

Apparently the feelings of the minorities are more important than the physical welfare of women.

Not one female (or male for that matter) I have spoken too thinks it’s right, but you can’t say anything or you’re a bigot or what ever fits!


This isa huge road block for women (and girls) in sport.

[David]

Only getting to this now, but what a shameful and disgraceful episode, and I’m including people in this thread who jumped in and slandered the Algerian boxer based on someone’s say-so. Thanks to Stui at least for being a voice of reason, even if I disagree with some of your conclusions here.

Unlike some, I have little sympathy for the Italian boxer. If getting hit in the face makes you cry, take up a different sport. Her little violin concerto brought out waves of unjustified hate against another person, and her apology was way too little too late. Incredibly poor sportsmanship. But the real villains of course are the internet bullies like JK Rowling and the gullible people with influence (including a UN special rapporteur) who fell for the bad faith whinging about this being an example of “men’s violence against women” – in a boxing match no less.

[Durka]

That's what misogynists are saying too.

[David]

Yep, amazing how deeply passionate about women’s sport they suddenly are.

[think positive]

Absolute garbage David.

No sympathy fora woman who worked her damn arse off for years, who was sensible enough to put her well-being first because she was getting beaten up by quack quack with testosterone in male quantities. That’s a damn hero in my books.

All of a sudden passionate about woman’s sport? How about Womans rights?


Funny really considering the majority of Australia’s gold medals have been won by the golden girls! Wonder how you’d feel if they were cheated of their medals or their place in the team, by ‘cheats’ with readings above legal?


‘She was assigned female gender at birth” huh? You are either born male or female or with a genetic abnormality, in which case if you want to compete at the highest level the exact abnormalities should be known. Put simply and crudely if there are testes in the body at birth that rules the person out as genetically female.

Again, competing at the highest level should be an earned privilege on an equal playing field. It is not a right. And the welfare of the other competitors trump the unfortunate reality of the situation.


This is not based on the obvious face level appearances, it’s based on failed testosterone level tests. They are incorporated for a reason.

[David]

You can have whatever views you like on which women deserve to be excluded from women’s sport – which we’ll obviously disagree on – but the bigger problem here is that you’ve decided she shouldn’t qualify without evidence (other than an inconclusive test result from a discredited organisation). As it is, she’s evidently not trans, and we don’t even conclusively know that she is intersex.

It’s easy to post from the cheap seats and never take accountability, but you and everyone else who called her a man – implying that she was a cheater and a fraud who should be excluded from the sport she has dedicated her career to – owe her an apology. I have a lot more sympathy for someone in her position who’s been subjected to hatred and vilification than for someone who merely lost a fair fight.

[stui magpie]

So, she wins the Gold medal and good on her. Ironically she had the gold medal fight against a Chinese boxer.

This whole thing has been a clustercluck of misinformation and poor management.

The IBA, who were the official international boxing governing body, were (allegedly) corrupt as hell and based out of Russia. Purely coincidentally I'm sure, The IBA first banned Khelif because of tests results that they won't detail, just before she was about to fight a Russian boxer in the final of a competition. Hmmmmm.

She may well be a DSD athlete or something similar, she may not be. No one knows because we don't have access to the facts.

The real clustercluck element here was when the IOC (seemingly with justification) booted the IBA as a governing body and decided to administer boxing in this games itself. The problem with that was, the IOC had previously completely dodged the issue of DSD/Trans/Intersex athletes in Women's sports and kicked that can down to the individual sport governing bodies who all went through extensive consultation to come up with rules to protect the integrity of women's sports. But the IOC didn't have any and couldn't have banned Khelif if they wanted to. So they let her compete and got into a media communications battle with the IBA which was like watching 2 intellectually challenged toddlers arguing over which one owned the red marble, meanwhile Khelif (through zero fault of her own) became a punching bag.

Even though as a Male I can't help but feel like I'm being a little bit condescending, I think it's important that female athletes get the most level playing field that they can. There's a reason why we have a separate sports category for women and if a woman has some genetic differences that provides some male attributes (without making them male) and gives them an unfair advantage then it's appropriate that they not be allowed to compete at elite level competition until/unless that advantage is neutralised.

I thought this was a very good and informative article. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/boxing/ ... 5k0vi.html

[Durka]

The IBA banned two boxers because they said they were not females.
Those 2 boxers were allowed to fight in the Olympics by the IOC because their passports said that they were female. There were 5 weight divisions for female boxing in the Olympics. The gold medals were won in two of the 5 weight divisions by the previously banned boxers.

Two "female" soccer players were banned from playing by the governing body for soccer in Africa, and by FIFA, for having high testosterone levels and for refusing to take testosterone suppressants. There are no reports of gender testing having occurred. They were not banned by the IOC from playing in the Olympics. They played against the Matildas and scored 5 goals between them. No other Zambian player scored.

Women's sport is going to be of a much higher standard when they get rid of the women and allow men in, just "because".

[think positive]

The IBA banned two boxers because they said they were not females.
Those 2 boxers were allowed to fight in the Olympics by the IOC because their passports said that they were female. There were 5 weight divisions for female boxing in the Olympics. The gold medals were won in two of the 5 weight divisions by the previously banned boxers.

Two "female" soccer players were banned from playing by the governing body for soccer in Africa, and by FIFA, for having high testosterone levels and for refusing to take testosterone suppressants. There are no reports of gender testing having occurred. They were not banned by the IOC from playing in the Olympics. They played against the Matildas and scored 5 goals between them. No other Zambian player scored.

Women's sport is going to be of a much higher standard when they get rid of the women and allow men in, just "because".

correct!!

and cue the transgender running for italy in the para olympics!

what damn bullshit

[think positive]

i guess thats what "assigned" at birth means.

link: https://www.nine.com.au/sport/olympics/ ... -ninedaily


"After the 2023 World Championships, where she was disqualified, I took the lead by contacting a renowned endocrinologist from the Parisian University Hospital, Kremlin-Bicêtre, who examined her.

"He confirmed that Imane is indeed a woman, despite her karyotype and her testosterone level. He said: 'There is a problem with her hormones, with her chromosomes, but she is a woman.' That's all that mattered to us.

"We then worked with a doctor based in Algeria to monitor and regulate Imane's testosterone level, which is currently within the female norm. Tests clearly show that all her muscular and other qualities have been diminishing since then.

"Currently, she can be compared on a muscular and biological level to a woman-woman-woman."

Adding to the discourse was Spanish national coach Rafa Lozano, who revealed that pairing Khelif with another female boxer during a retreat ahead of the Olympics was a difficult task.

"They were doing a retreat at Blume and we couldn't put her with anyone,' he told Radio Marca.

'We put her with Jennifer Fernandez and it hurt her. Whoever we put her with was injured."

He said coaches only found a match for her after pairing her up with Jose Quiles, one of Spain's leading male boxers.

"I don't see it as fair,' he said. 'Everyone can think what they want, but that's how I see it."

[Durka]

"There is a problem with her hormones, with her chromosomes, but she is a woman."

In other words, the bloke has XY chromosomes and high testosterone, but has taken some suppressants, and therefore became a woman.

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George said "It's not a lie if you believe it".

Fits in perfectly with the "my truth" comments that has worked its way into common usage.

[David]

In other words, sounds like you have no idea what you’re talking about.

[think positive]

"There is a problem with her hormones, with her chromosomes, but she is a woman."

In other words, the bloke has XY chromosomes and high testosterone, but has taken some suppressants, and therefore became a woman.

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George said "It's not a lie if you believe it".

Fits in perfectly with the "my truth" comments that has worked its way into common usage.

Certainly sounds like a genetic hiccup at birth, and the assigned female comment makes sense. A horrible thing to hapoen, for sure, wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy, but the rules should still apply.