Our veteran quandary

[Pies2016]

In my simple world, the future of a number of our veterans would / should be driven by our off season recruiting drive ( trading, not drafting ) The club would already have some idea who will be ( or won’t be) joining our list for 2025. If they have found a way to be aggressive and introduce two or three new plug and play acquisitions from other clubs, then we should hold onto a reasonable percentage of our senior experience and leadership. Conversely, if the club knows internally, there isn’t much happening in the way of ready made player acquisitions, then we should be prepared to let a number of our vets go and reshape our list sooner than later. The rational is simple, without ready made talent being added to our list overnight, the reality of that same group winning a flag again two years later in 2025, is zero. The competition has moved on and improved, so if we can’t do the same in this coming off season, then we should be prepared to take one step back, in order to take two steps forward.

[Mr Miyagi]

I say we move the entire club to Geelong so we can attract players and rort the salary cap and bounce back the next year in the top four with an ageing list like Geelong has.

[qldmagpie67]

In my simple world, the future of a number of our veterans would / should be driven by our off season recruiting drive ( trading, not drafting ) The club would already have some idea who will be ( or won’t be) joining our list for 2025. If they have found a way to be aggressive and introduce two or three new plug and play acquisitions from other clubs, then we should hold onto a reasonable percentage of our senior experience and leadership. Conversely, if the club knows internally, there isn’t much happening in the way of ready made player acquisitions, then we should be prepared to let a number of our vets go and reshape our list sooner than later. The rational is simple, without ready made talent being added to our list overnight, the reality of that same group winning a flag again two later in 2025 is zero. The competition has moved on and improved, so if we can’t do the same in this coming off season, then we should be prepared to take one step back, in order to take two steps forward.

Mate your 100% right but the question remains who’s making those assessments and decisions
The presidents own words say we now have a new model with the job shared among 3 currently (Leppa Bolton Kelly) and with Wright to apparently according to Browne I’ll have to work within in this model
Personally I don’t see how this sort of system works
Ultimately there needs to be 1 boss who takes responsibility
I remember a wise old coach who’s had success across 4 decades and his mantra was
Fail to plan then plan to fail
Right now who’s doing the planning ?
We’ve missed out on 4 players this year who we where apparently right into but are not spoken of going elsewhere
Why ?
Who’s leading our presentation to these players ? Who’s selling the dream ?
I know for a fact we made a presentation to McCluggage with a very healthy long term offer. He decided to stay at Lions and I understand it’s hard to get players away from clubs especially if those clubs have had or are in the verge of having success.
Smith is off to Geelong (signed sealed delivered apparently) who spoke to him ?
Right now IMO we are like a headless chook scratching around finding nothing
We need someone to be front and centre leading the charge
I posted elsewhere why aren’t we going hell bent on Rayner ? Lions have cap pressure plus there bringing in young Ashcroft mk2 and have 3 more academy kids who are top 10/20 picks hitting in next 2 years who are all mid/forwards
Right there should be our selling point. At the lions he’s in a long line. At Collingwood he gets to be a central figure along side brothers Daicos JDG etc
He fits everything we need right now

[Big T]

100% correct qldpie on Rayner, but how do we grab an ex number 1 pick without selling the farm (again) draft wise, unless he’s an UFA ?

[The Black and White Lion]

Be careful what you wish for. Luke Hodge and Tom Boyd the only No.1 picks since 2000 to win 5flags between them. No other picks have come close except Adam Cooney who left the dogs so the dogs could win a flag in 2016. Club champions like Riewoldt, Goddard, Whitfield have made the GF to no avail.

In the modern game you’re actually better off trading the no.1 pick for multiple picks and or players. No more Matthew Lloyd disasters for the team trading it out. The odds are actually better.

Same goes for trading in former No.1 picks with Tom Boyd the notable exception and Boyd retired a year after his first and only one.

[Pies2016]

If I had to pick one veteran I WOULDNT be finishing up this year, it’s Tom Mitchell.
He’s the one who would make Nicks life easier more than most. We need first hands on the ball and ideally we don’t want it to have to be Nick while he’s being sat on in the square. Mitchell is a true professional, so you know he will be working hard in the off season to come back cherry ripe in 2025. He doesn’t rely on pace, he simply relies on smarts to go with that ball tracking sixth sense. He won’t lose either of those qualities in 2025. He was also lightly run in 2024, so he will be hungry to get amongst it next year. Ideally you want to get to the stage where Mitchell is playing VFL because the likes of MacRae or Allan have stepped up but given Mitchell’s footy resume, I just don’t see that happening on a regular basis in 2025.
PS Mitchell is contracted for 2025. Unless he retires early or the club pay him out, he will be playing for the club next season.

[SLORT]

If Howe does decide not to go on a farewell game against Melbourne (assuming we don't make finals) could be a fitting finale.

[Durka]

If I had to pick one veteran I WOULDNT be finishing up this year, it’s Tom Mitchell.

How do you see Mitchell, Pendles and Sidey all being in the team at the same time? I couldn't see more than one of them attending a centre bounce at a time. It's a real handicap having glacier slow players in the middle and one is bad enough. There's been many instances where an opponent has the ball, one step away from the latter two, and they know they can run off freely.That sort of thing has killed us this year. There was an incident a few weeks ago where Sidey was the closest to the ball, in defence, and 3 opponents chased from behind, overtook him and kicked an easy goal. There was an incident in a game last year where Pendles was caught out in space on the wing on the G, with Josh Weddle as his opponent. I had the immediate feeling of dread as I knew that Pendles was no match for Josh, and he wasn't. It was the young fast guy against the old slow guy, and it was saddening to see that happen to Pendles, for his presence to be treated with contempt by an opponent. These are only a couple of examples. I can't see that we will be a top 8 team whilst those 3 are still playing, as we are playing off a handicap of a few easy goals every week if they're in the team. That's not to say though that they are not worth their place at the moment, as we are no longer a strong team, and their potential replacements are not yet good enough
to replace them.Your thoughts?

[Pies2016]

^^^
You make a fair point but there’s an obvious difference between playing in the seniors every week and being on the list. If your form is good enough, then you’re playing AFL. If your form isn’t good enough, then you’re playing VFL. Games are won or lost in the middle, so it’s the one area where you can least afford to be exposed in. If you’re going to keep a vet or two, keep the ones who play in positions where games are won or lost.
From the outside looking in, I think the time is right for both Sidey and Howe to retire and that’s based on both what I see on the footy field and what would likely negatively impact the team the least in 2025. I remain open minded on Cox and Elliot going around again, so I will just trust the club and player to make the right decision for all involved during the off season.

[Durka]

Thank you. I really value your opinions on this site, as I am sure that most other readers do too.

[neil]

If you look at the list management thread then we are looking at Petracca 30 next year
May as well keep our veterans and not get him be cheaper plus we wont waste the 2025 first round pick on him

[The General]

Well... Sidebottom isn't going anywhere.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sid ... 5k2gi.html

Sidebottom’s up: Collingwood great to play on in 2025

Collingwood’s two-time premiership great Steele Sidebottom is poised to play on in 2025, with the Magpies in discussions with his management over a new deal.

The decision to offer Sidebottom a contract – which will see his career stretch into a 17th AFL season – means all nine of Collingwood’s 30-and-over players are slated to continue playing in 2025.
Steele Sidebottom is poised to continue his AFL career into 2025.

Steele Sidebottom is poised to continue his AFL career into 2025.Credit: AFL Photos

Talks have started between Collingwood and Sidebottom’s management on a one-year deal, according to a source with knowledge of the discussions who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Collingwood’s commitment to Sidebottom, 33, follows an agreement with his decorated long-time teammate and ex-skipper Scott Pendlebury, who will play on into his 20th season, having already played a club-record 401 games.

Vice captain Jeremy Howe, another veteran who entered 2024 without a contract, triggered a contract extension by playing against the Swans last Friday in his 250th game.

Collingwood are also in negotiations over a 2025 contract for the versatile Will Hoskin-Elliott, 30, who has had one of his best seasons this year playing a mix of roles at both ends and on the wing.

Veterans Jack Crisp (30), Jamie Elliott (32 next week), Mason Cox (33), Brody Mihocek (31) and Tom Mitchell (31), all have contracts for 2025 and would play next year, barring any unexpected developments. Cox, Mihocek and Mitchell have had injury-wracked seasons this year, while Elliott has overcome a vascular issue that sidelined him for several games.

The decision to retain Sidebottom can be read as a sign that Collingwood believe they can be in the mix for finals and the flag in 2025, despite a fall from the 2023 to their current position out of the eight.

It also represents a postponement of a large turnover in the playing list, which appears certain after 2025 given there are several veterans whose contracts expire at the end of next year.

Sidebottom, a member of both the 2010 premiership team and last year’s flag side, has played 20 of 22 matches this year. Primarily a wingman in his later years, he was successfully deployed as a tagger on Sydney gun Errol Gulden on Friday night. He has averaged nearly 18 disposals this year, compared to a career average of 23.3.

Collingwood have one of the largest contingent of 30-plus players in the competition. Geelong have 11 players who are 30 or older, while the Tigers have 10 on the list in that category. The Collingwood hierarchy has indicated that they will rely on a mix of drafting, free agency and trading over the next few years and will not be as pure in sticking to the national draft as some clubs.

[derkd]

^ really silly move by the pies. Needed to start to move some of these guys on.

I am very worried about 2025

[Jen2310]

All this is doing is prolonging the unevitable and kicking the can down the road another year. At this rate, we are gonna have more retire in 12 months. The process should have started now.

[Big T]

It is madness to retain all of them. Madness. Collingwood Eagles here we come. And don’t complain about injuries next year Fly when half the list will be prone to soft tissue injuries.

I’d say our fringe youngsters will also take trades given this news due to a shocking lack of opportunity thus far.