Israeli–Palestinian conflict

[stui magpie]

Israel may not be able to "obliterate" Hezbollah, but they're making a mess of their leadership. Another senior leader and team killed.

[Magpietothemax]

During Netanyahu's speech at the UN, he outlined the perspective of US imperialism and its proxy Israel to reorganise the Middle east.
He held up a map, which he called the "Blessing". It showed the countries Israel, Saudia Arabia, Egypt, Sudan, Jordan all coloured green as partners in a kind of co-prosperity sphere. Gaza and West Bank were included within Israel on this map. His words were:
“This is the map I presented here last year. It’s a map of a blessing. It shows Israel and its Arab partners forming a land bridge connecting Asia and Europe.”

Here is a link to this image:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pf93eel1 ... b51m2&dl=0

He then held up a map which had the countries: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Iran coloured in black and the heading on the map was "curse."
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/hyvceqbe ... h6ya6&dl=0

His words were:
“Now look at this second map. It’s a map of a curse. It’s a map of an arc of terror that Iran has created and imposed from the Indian Ocean to the Mediterranean. Israel is committed to removing the curse.”
“With American support and leadership, I believe this vision can materialize much sooner than people think.”

He is announcing to the world how the US and Israel, as its totally dependent proxy and rampaging attack dog, are embarking on the reorganisation of the MIddle East. Their aim is the "removal of the curse"

After he had delivered this monstrous speech that Hitler would have envied, he ordered from a landline in New York the assassination of Nasrallah, using laser guided bunker busters manufactured in the US.

Biden was quick to express his support for this political assassination.

US imperialism is now on the warpath, its immediate aim in the Middle East to reimpose colonial subjugation of Lebanon, Iraq, Syria and Iran, with the assistance of its fascist lackeys in the Israel government.

It is important to note that the US already has 40 000 troops stationed at various bases throughout the Middle East, and will soon have two aircraft carriers off the coast, able to strike anywhere in the "cursed crescent".

[Magpietothemax]

In regard to my previous post about Israel "obliterating Hezbollah", Israel may or may not succeed. However, imperialism is not based on rational calculations as to whether or not they are likely to succeed in destroying their immediate targets.

US capitalism really is facing down bankruptcy. It would only take the financial markets to blink at the unprecedented size of the US debt for a massive run toward gold as a safe haven and out of US bonds. The US Is is caught in a hopeless death spiral. It must continue to convince investors that it is good for a historically gigantic debt, even while it is spending billions on two war fronts, in Ukraine and in Gaza/Lebanon.

In Ukraine, Russia is appearing to be approaching a breakthrough in the Donbass, and the Ukrainian army has been bled white. If, after all the massive military packages that the US has sent to Zelensky, the military position of his government collapses, the US administration is terrified of a run on the dollar.

The US has lost its economic supremacy, and therefore increasingly its ability to influence other countries diplomatically. It has therefore turned to its one remaining trump card : military power.

Therefore, the US administration (whether you consider it to be that of Biden or Harris) is not driven by such judgements of whether Israel can successfully eliminate Hamas or Hezbollah. It is driven only by one imperative: to reorganise the world in its own interests, and it will try to destroy any obstacle that gets in its path.

I hope this makes my position clearer on whether or not the US/Israel will succed in destroying Hamas/Hezbollah.

In the meantime, what is certain, is that whatever the ultimate fate of Hamas and Hezbollah, hundreds of thousands if not millions of innocent civilians in the Middle East (including those in Israel) are now in danger of barbaric violence on a scale not seen since World War 2.

[Magpietothemax]

What Israel's government would undoubtedly like to do, and might yet succeed in, is expand the war to Iran and draw the US and other countries into a violent and destructive regional conflict. But I don't see that as being a walk in the park for them, and, whoever emerges victorious (if anyone), no doubt there'll be a lot of carnage visited upon ordinary people in Israel and Iran along the way, as well as other countries caught in the middle.

Nobody should want that – and much as I'd in theory like Iranian theocracy as well as the Israeli apartheid state to fall, it's not a trade-off any sane person should accept.

As I am sure will play out in the hours and days to come, what a "sane person" should accept is absolutely irrelevant in terms of what imperialism is now going to inflict on massive civilian populations.

Do you think any "sane person" should accept the criminal genocide in Gaza?

Of course not, and millions world wide in massive, sustained protests have expressed their outrage.

Yet where are we?

Israel continues and expands its genocidal violence, with US support.

Today in the media, we hear both Dutton and Albanese threatening more attacks on the democratic rights to protest against this genocide. Throughout the world, capitalist governments are moving to outlaw anti-genocide opposition.

Imperialism is insanity, and it can only be opposed with a genuine, anti-capitalist perspective.

[stui magpie]

So now Iran decides to up the ante and enter the fight openly rather than through it's proxies, and launch Ballistic Missiles at Israel. Apparently their Revolutionary Guard fired the missiles, not the Iranian Army, and the Iranian President was told about it after they were fired.

Whatever the relationship between the Ayatollah and the President, it clearly isn't working to it's optimum. Iran is spending Billions to arm Terrorist groups surrounding Israel while the Iranian citizens live in ruins. Priorities need some adjusting there methinks.

What happens next will be interesting. It would be unike Israel to ignore this but returning fire could really escalate things so they may just double down on making a mess of Hezbollah. If they can reduce them to a shadow, even temporarily, the Lebanese Government may take the opportunity to regain actual control of south Lebanon and try to reduce tensions with Israel.

[Culprit]

Israel has a green light to do as it pleases as they do have a right to defend themselves. The issue is they are taking out civilians at the same time. The change has to come from within Iran and Lebanon but alas the religious extremism on all sides means peace is unachievable. The world has to accept refugees from the region but no one wants a bar of them. Especially Dutton, the RW view is they are all terrorists. I am more annoyed that Australians decided to stay/visit there despite the warnings and now want the Government to get them out and put our service people in danger.

[stui magpie]

^
Yeah, it's a special kind of stupid to not heed the warnings and GTFO when you had the chance.

I understand both sides of the refugee argument, it's not as black and white as the RW or LW make it seem. Once you bring people in, even on a temporary protection Visa, it can be difficult to get them out if they prove to be trouble so if in doubt, say No seems to be the safest option.

Also seems like Israel have been given the green light to retaliate against Iran provided they don't hit their nuclear sites. So they'll just pump missiles into their oil refineries and infrastructure and further cripple the country

[Brodies Dad]

Beirut is being decimated, there is nowhere else left to go.

Israel is now bombing more than 1 million civilians trapped in Beirut.

Another massacre is happening this time in Beirut right now, and the world is silent and complicit.

[Magpietothemax]

^Welcome BD.

I agree, Israel is now visiting upon Lebanon its genocidal methods.

There is no longer any pretence whatseover: the IDF is murdering thousands of innocent civilians, targeting as a priority hospitals and medical workers in Lebanon as they did in Gaza.

But it is not the entire world that is complicit. It is the major capitalist governments who are complicit.

First the US. In fact, Israel is not an independent acter. Everything it does is planned, discussed and co-ordinated with the Biden Administration and the Pentagon.

Then there are all the NATO governments, who likewise politically back the genocide, despite at times making phony pleas for a ceasefire or arms embargo (as Macron has just done).

And then there is also of course the Albanese government and its loyal opposition headed by Dutton, who all back Israel's genocide with the weasel words that "Israel has a right to defend itself"

But all these criminals do not have the support of the wider population. That is why they are rapidly moving to try to criminalise opposition to the Gaza genocide. Here in Australia, we constantly see political figures lyingly demonising protesters as "anti-Semitic" and moving towards the outright banning of demonstrations.

So no, it isn't the entire world that is complicit. The vast bulk of public opinion is horrified and opposes the barbarism unfolding at the hands of the US proxy Israel.

[stui magpie]

Holding pro Palestine rally's on the 1 year anniversary of when Hamas attacked, raped and murdered Israeli civilians, women and children is entirely lacking in class and if the protestors had a modicum of intelligence or insight, they wouldn't be there.

Luckily the few who did show up got to hear the pearls of wisdom from that great intellectual giant, Lydia Thorpe. An attention seeking imbecile preaching to attention seeking imbeciles. How fitting.

[Magpietothemax]

Holding pro Palestine rally's on the 1 year anniversary of when Hamas attacked, raped and murdered Israeli civilians, women and children is entirely lacking in class and if the protestors had a modicum of intelligence or insight, they wouldn't be there.

Luckily the few who did show up got to hear the pearls of wisdom from that great intellectual giant, Lydia Thorpe. An attention seeking imbecile preaching to attention seeking imbeciles. How fitting.

You need to stop spreading the lie that Hamas carried out mass rape

Israel has not produced a shred of evidence to substantiate it.

Just like the lurid lies about beheading/cooking babies.

Concocted fantasies to suck in those who wanted to be sucked in. Never the slightest attempt to provide evidence from anywhere in Israel.

Those who attended the anti-genocide demonstration today, as many of them have done every Sunday over the past year, were there to express their outrage at the ongoing genocide in Gaza, which has according to the Lancet already led to 187 000 deaths - and now its expansion into Lebanon which has led to thousands of deaths and the displacement of 1.2 million people.

It had nothing to do with the anniversary of the incursion carried out by Hamas.

That was the focus of the pro-Israel demonstration carried out at the same time. They were the there to mourn the deaths of over 1000 Israelis (several hundred not at the hands of Hamas, but due to the actions of the IDF, by the way).

That is their right, but anyone with a degree of rationality would agree that those who were at the anti-genocide rally had more reasons to be outraged by a factor of about 200 to 1.

I have absolutely no sympathy for Lydia Thorpe, who is a right wing politician trying to cash in on identity politics.

However the fact that you refer to the anti-genocide protesters as "attention seeking imbeciles", and that you are complicit in spreading Israeli propaganda, speaks volumes about where you are coming from.

[What'sinaname]

There is no lying. The focus is on not having people protest with terrorist flags. There is no move to ban demonstrations, just ban people supporting terrorists.

[Magpietothemax]

There is no lying. The focus is on not having people protest with terrorist flags. There is no move to ban demonstrations, just ban people supporting terrorists.

Those who were holding Israeli flags at the pro-Israel demonstration, were also supporting terrorists - a terrorist state.
The entire Australian government is guilty of projecting a symbol of terrorism - the flag of Israel - on Parliament house.
The major focus of the authorities is not on preventing people from flying symbols of terrorism.
The focus is on creating an amalgam: that those who oppose genocide and war are either terrorist sympathisers or anti-Semites.
Moreover, it will not stop here.
The Australian government is deeply involved in preparing Australia to be an aircraft carrier for the US in its preparations for war against China.
The Australian government, both State and Federal, is working to create the climate where any opposition to war can be criminalised.

And by the way, there is lying. The lying was what SM said about Hamas committing mass rapes.

[stui magpie]

^

I'm not lying, I'm posting facts that you can't cope with. Prove me wrong.

[Magpietothemax]

It is up to you to provide the evidence of the allegations of mass rape.
Burden of proof is on you.
You made a claim without evidence.
Unless you produce the evidence, it is a lie.
Israel has not produced any evidence yet.
Maybe you can save the fascists in the Netanyahu government by finding some.