Post Match. Pies tie Dons. All comments.

[Pies2016]

What has become evident to me is that when our intensity levels drop below manic, good teams get hold of us. The game plan, with the players we have (who include a lot of average roll players) needs everyone switched on 100%. Just a couple of percent off and we don't compete.

This new stat called Pressure Rating is instructive. We rated over 200 in the second quarter when we took hold of the game and in the 180's for the other 3.

The big problem is, I just think it's not sustainable to need everyone operating at manic levels of intensity each week.

Very true.
The quarter by quarter pressure ratings for this game are as follows -
Pies. ( 1 ) 168. ( 2 ) 212. ( 3 ) 182. ( 4 ). 183
ESS. ( 1 ).184. ( 2 ) 174. ( 3 ) 181. ( 4 ). 187

Once again you will see whoever leads the ratings generally has the better of the quarter. Pressure is everything and the only variable that potentially cheapens it’s value is poor conversion on goal.
Clearly we are capable of applying the best pressure in the competition ( we lead the highest scores in 2024 ) but is it reasonable for the oldest team in the competition and off five day breaks, to sustain it for longer ?

The most pressing problem with losing first quarters so badly is that it forces the coach into plan B so quickly. It’s plan B because it’s not your first choice. According to the commentary, we were forced to drop the extra player late in the first quarter into the backline to stem the bleeding. That’s fine and that’s what you do but it gives you less options and numbers at clearances and stoppages. Conversely, this also gives the opposition options as to what they want to do with their extra. In that instance an opposition coach will usually decide to play their extra as a midfielder and then we are relying on winning the ball back in defence after they’ve taken first possession.
That’s one of the reasons we were smashed at stoppages ( obviously the extra doesn’t apply at the centre square bounces where we were also badly beaten) We stemmed the bleeding by winning the ball back in defence but we were playing catch up all day.
Personally, I thought it was a fair effort by Collingwood. This is Essendons grand final every year because they don’t play finals and it’s their time to shine in front of a big crowd and TV audience. They couldn’t have played much better and yet we still fumbled our way ( literally) to drawing level with them at the end of the day.

[Presti35]

It's an odd feeling leaving the ground thats for sure.
We could easily be sitting here with an L right now. Juas as we could be sitting here with the W.
I was ready to go off at that siren. But it went when scores were level.
Im annoyed we didnt hold on to the lead. But im relieved we didnt lose.
Travelled in and out with an Essendon supporting friend. We spoke more about how were disappointed with todays NBA than the match.

[BenBronx]

I wasn't sure how to feel after the draw yesterday. Mihochek's two kicks in the last quarter and Jamie not holding on to the mark late on felt like we missed a chance to grab the win but at the same time Kyle Langford had a chance to win it for the Bombers, so the draw was probably a fair result.

I loved the emotion shown by Fly after the ANZAC Day ceremony where he was emotional and I thought it was handled brilliantly by Abbey Holmes who rubbed his arm and didn't press him to answer a heap of questions. It's impossible not to love Craig McRae.

A lot of memorable moments from the game. The most obvious one would be the mark and subsequent goal from Jamie Elliott. It may only be Round 7 but that surely has to be Mark of the Year. It was great to see Scott Pendlebury became the first VFL/AFL player to surpass 10,000 disposals and how good was the superb checkside kick from Bobby Hill close on quarter time?! Also nice to see Harvey Harrison with a goal in his first ANZAC Day game.

[inxs88]

^ I'm jealous of Craig's arm

[RudeBoy]

I'm not sure why there seems to be so much nervousness and pessimism on Nicks.

It's clear to me that we need an injection of another 2-3 newer players to keep us in this year's flag hunt. Last year we introduced Hill, Markov, Frampton and Mitchell. So far this year we've only introduced Schultz. I might be overly optimistic, but I am expecting Demattia and hopefully one or more of Eiyre, Begg, Sullivan, Allan or Steene to get senior berths by season's end.

I'm not saying they should be immediately discarded, but by the end of the year I expect we'll have replaced Mitchell and Sidey from our best 23. Of course they may yet prove me wrong, and if they are managed properly throughout the year, they may still be able to be valuable contributors come September.

One thing's for sure, there can be no room for sentimentalism when it comes to team selection. Furthermore, as others have said, sometimes new players need a succession of a few senior games before they find their feet and adapt to the added speed and physicality of senior footy. If that is to happen, as it inevitably must, then at least a couple of our veterans will need to be 'sacrificed' for the greater long term good of our team. That's football.

[Simply_Brutal]

A concern of mine is team selection, and the reluctance to stray from the veterans.

Craig has often voiced how he doesn’t believe in “managing” players, which I think is a mistake. Particularly with the older players, resting 1 each week to allow a younger player a run of games would seem to be the smart thing to do. It’s undeniable that Sidey would have benefitted from having this week off, for example.

And this is something Malthouse was great at.

As an example, our 2010 Grand Final team had almost as many changes from the 2010 Round 1 side (7) as the 2024 ANZAC team had from 2022 Round 1 (8).

Unlike the 2010 changes towards youth however, the changes from 2022 to now were either injury/suspension (WHE, Maynard) or trade (Schultz, Hill, Mitchell, Frampton).

2024 Rd 7 vs 2022 Rd 1

IN:
Schultz (Trade)
Hill (Trade)
Mitchell (Trade(
Frampton (Trade)
Maynard (Suspended)
Hoskin-Elliot (Covid)
Cameron
Harrison


OUT:
Adams (Trade)
Henry (Trade)
Grundy (Trade)
Ginnivan (Trade)
Wilson (Delisted)
T Brown (Delisted)
Bianco (Delisted)
Madgen (Delisted)

[daics aka the ruckman]

Interesting point that manic pressure is how we win.
Old bodies will impose limits on the ability to maintain that manic pressure and I think that's what is limiting our success so far this year.
It would be nice to have the weapons (Carlton Curnow/Mckay) that rely less on the manic pressure and more on size and skill.

I think the VFL form is often not reflective of AFL capabilities. Many past players have needed 10-40 games in the seniors to really shine. We have been blessed with Nick D able to shine straight away, but remember Josh was a mix of VFL/AFL for many years until he was a regular senior. Quaynor took many games to became a certain starter.
Time to give some of the recent selections some serious time in the seniors as part of their development. We haven't been able to do this because we had a premiership team but this is no longer.

[Mr Miyagi]

Malthouse was 15 years ago. And he would always play a newbie for one game and then drop them back to the magoos for months without giving them at least two weeks in a row to settle. Honestly, if anyone at the club starts reminiscing “Malthouse did it better, we need to go back to his coaching style” then we’re $@&^#.

[Magpietothemax]

^ The challenge is delisting those who feel entitled to play on but may not deserve it. That shall take some finesse and ruthlessness.

Please name those you believe feel "entitled to play" while not deserving it.
Such a comment pays no respect to the team spirit and selflessness that our team has showed over the last two and a half years.

[Pies4shaw]

Do we actually even have a problem with team selection methods? The Coach has the best winning percentage of any Collingwood coach who has had charge of the team for more than 2 games (Ron Richards and Bob Rush coached 3 games between them and won all 3). At 71.93%, he's ahead of all of Condon, Angus, Mann, McHale, Fahey, Rose, Strickland, Kyne, Cahill, Malthouse, Matthews and Buckley, And he has done this taking over and transforming a team that had a 27% winning record (won 6 games and lost 16) the year before he started.

Moreover, the changes he has made have been significant. Between the first game he coached in 2022 and now, all of Adams, Bianco, Tyler Brown, Ginnivan, Grundy, Henry, Madgen and Wilson are not just out of the team but gone from the Club. Even before Adams left, his role in the team had changed markedly - he played the most effective football of his Collingwood career in 2023 as a high half-forward and looked a way more useful player in that role than he ever looked as a fumbly inside mid.

Certainly, the start of 2024 has been disappointing, measured against our heightened expectations based on 2022 and 2023, but the poor start consisted of 3 losses before the end of the 3rd week of March and, since then, the team has not lost any of its 4 games - recent performance doesn't demand change merely for change's sake.

[Pies2016]

^^^
I think that says it all. We haven’t lost any of our last four games ( and they haven’t all been easy beats either )
At some point, you pay a price for continually winning, by way of diluted draft picks. I watched less of the VFL than usual yesterday but the stand out player on the ground was the Bombers, Tsatas, who was pick five from two drafts ago. We just don’t have those those early picks who have enough ready made weapons at 18 / 19 to make that senior impact sooner than later. When your first picks start in the twenties, there’s every chance you’re going to need two years or more of development in them before they can cope with the rigours of AFL footy every week.
We all agree on a small sample size, Harrison looked solid against the Bombers and that’s four pre seasons in the making. If the young blokes keep working hard and remain fully focussed on their footy, they will get their turn.
But right now, we have an AFL team that hasn’t lost for a month and a VFL team that’s lost it’s last two games against lowly opposition. Hardly a formula for anything more than minimal changes.

[Gerry Cooper]

^^^^

A question.

1) What game style is the VFL team employing. Are they playing a Fly style chaos style game plan or something else?

[RudeBoy]

The reported recurring foot injury to Mitchell confirms my belief on the day, that he was subbed off against the Bumbers because he was buggered. Otherwise, I suspect Sidey would have been subbed off at 3/4 time.

[K]

What has become evident to me is that when our intensity levels drop below manic, good teams get hold of us. The game plan, with the players we have (who include a lot of average roll players) needs everyone switched on 100%. Just a couple of percent off and we don't compete.

This new stat called Pressure Rating is instructive. We rated over 200 in the second quarter when we took hold of the game and in the 180's for the other 3.

The big problem is, I just think it's not sustainable to need everyone operating at manic levels of intensity each week.

Very true.
The quarter by quarter pressure ratings for this game are as follows -
Pies. ( 1 ) 168. ( 2 ) 212. ( 3 ) 182. ( 4 ). 183
ESS. ( 1 ).184. ( 2 ) 174. ( 3 ) 181. ( 4 ). 187

Once again you will see whoever leads the ratings generally has the better of the quarter. Pressure is everything and the only variable that potentially cheapens it’s value is poor conversion on goal.
Clearly we are capable of applying the best pressure in the competition ( we lead the highest scores in 2024 ) but is it reasonable for the oldest team in the competition and off five day breaks, to sustain it for longer ?
...

Yup. To win a flag, you need to be able to cruise through a lotta H&A games in 2nd gear, winning through class alone.

[The Black and White Lion]

^^^^A question. 1) What game style is the VFL team employing. Are they playing a Fly style chaos style game plan or something else?

I would say a handicapped rebound game long down the wings but without tall marking targets. Seems to be run and gun otherwise and kick wide to the flank and then swing towards goal. The first 2 games against were much better going through the middle but the last 2 weeks we’ve been smashed in the middle and gone wide wider and then wider.