#19 Andrew Williams

zoia · Post by **zoia** » Sun May 23, 2004 7:29 pm

ok people i have a dare here if kinnear plays for the pies next week and kicks a goal i will put 28 on my jumper coz im getting a new 1 very soon

LeonSkyDiamonds · Post by **LeonSkyDiamonds** » Sun May 23, 2004 7:46 pm

He has consistantly failed in big games.Even when he was going well(when we first got him from WCE) he would fail against quality opposition,especially looking like an amateur playing with and against pros when playing BL.Good-bye Williams,Kinnear,Mcgough-is there enough room on a reduced modern day list for a pure and simple wet weather specialist such as Mcgough.

Cotta · Post by **Cotta** » Sun May 23, 2004 8:56 pm

Geez i'm sick to death of idiots having a go at McGough. Seriously, does anyone go to the footy and watch what he does?
Most common complaints:

He's too slow!
While he's not fast, he has a awkward running style that makes him look like he's standing still, when in fact he's moving pretty quick. Have a look at R. Shaw to see what pure pace and nothing else gets you.

He Can't kick!
He's getting better. Still not the prettiest kick, but is often judged on his clearing kicks which is unfair considering he's about the only player in our team that is actually clearing the ball at stopages, bar licca.

Getting rid of MCG will come back to haunt us.

Williams had 80 minutes the other night and managed to get 5 possies. Wasn't playing deep in the forward line either. That should say it all him.

Post by **Newelly** » Mon May 24, 2004 12:54 am

With McGough great ability to read the play he has the makings of a Tony Shaw/Greg Williams style of player. Both these players were neither fast, great leapers and markers and couldn't kick the ball more than 45-50 metres, but they had the all important ability to read the play and position themself in the right place to get the pill. Both Shaw's and Williams respective clubs won flags with these two playing vital roles within the team. Henceforth McGough should work as much or more on his handpassing and learn to offload it quickly to fleet-footed players with more penetrating kicks than his own. Not so much his own fault I just think we as a team are lacking in fitness which is undermining the players capacity to run hard for the entire match.

Cakewalk · Post by **Cakewalk** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:10 am

Johnson#26 wrote:
Cakewalk wrote:He is an absolute dud.
Kinnear and Williams are on a par.
Has Kinnear ever had 3 sizzling matches in a row? Nup. Williams did last year and then dropped off. At least we know the way he can play. I don't think we've ever seen Kinnears best.

I saw Kinnear get 3 Brownlow votes playing CHB on Chris Grant in 2001 and he played a couple of above average games late last year , that's about it.
Williams had a couple of good games in early 2003 (especially against Carlton) , but he has shown nothing since , apart from being a stupid lazy footballer.
Both are not up to AFL football and are infuriating to watch.

Johnson#26 · Post by **Johnson#26** » Mon May 24, 2004 7:30 am

LeonSkyDiamonds wrote:He has consistantly failed in big games.Even when he was going well(when we first got him from WCE) he would fail against quality opposition,especially looking like an amateur playing with and against pros when playing BL.Good-bye Williams,Kinnear,Mcgough-is there enough room on a reduced modern day list for a pure and simple wet weather specialist such as Mcgough.

Yes, there is certainly room for McGough. He is an extractor and ball magnet and hopefuly with time his kicking improves, which I'm sure it will.

LeonSkyDiamonds · Post by **LeonSkyDiamonds** » Mon May 24, 2004 2:50 pm

It's very difficult to take anyone serious who compares one of the all time greats-Greg Williams Norm Smith Medalist,2 time Brownlow medalist with Scum & Swans,4 or 5 times B & F with 2 clubs and one of the most prolific gatherers and exquisite users of the ball either by hand or foot with an out and out dud who is only getting a game in a very ordinairy team by virtue of the fact that there are so many injuries to key players (nearly all our midfield-Dutchie,Mr Burns,Bux,Fraser)

And in reply to the queries surrounding his pace,he is very slow,always will be slow.Unless i am hallucinating he nearly or does get run down everytime he gains possession.

And when it comes to kicking,as far as hang time to opposition players goes,he is the king.How many times against the Crows did he kick it a mile in the air straight into a Crowsnest?He doesn't show any sign of improving unfortunately.

At least he's gutsy and knows how to get the aggot.

Post by **Newelly** » Mon May 24, 2004 2:58 pm

hmm did you read my post about his kicking? I don't dispute that point. Said he should work on his handballing. I also mentioned both Shaw and Williams were slow alluding to the fact the McGough lacked pace. He (McGough) is a player made in their mould NOT a player of their achievements. How many people said Shaw or Williams wouldn't make it when they started? I know there were several doubters. With McGoughs prolific ball winning ability he has a place in any side providing his disposal, whether it is mainly by hand or foot, improves.

Blanch · Post by **Blanch** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:04 pm

You don't throw away 20-30 possessions per game. Getting the ball is a skill he has. Learning the use it is the responsibility of the coaching staff to help with. Need I bring up the countless threads on BJ's kicking from 2 years ago? Do we question it now? MCG can learn to use the ball better, not overnight but it will get there - see BJ and Licca for examples.

As for speed, he's quick enough to get boot to ball on clearances. that means he's quick enough.

Johnson#26 · Post by **Johnson#26** » Mon May 24, 2004 4:33 pm

LeonSkyDiamonds wrote:It's very difficult to take anyone serious who compares one of the all time greats-Greg Williams Norm Smith Medalist,2 time Brownlow medalist with Scum & Swans,4 or 5 times B & F with 2 clubs and one of the most prolific gatherers and exquisite users of the ball either by hand or foot with an out and out dud who is only getting a game in a very ordinairy team by virtue of the fact that there are so many injuries to key players (nearly all our midfield-Dutchie,Mr Burns,Bux,Fraser)

People are just saying they can see simillaritys between Williams and McGough. He probably won't be as good but he can still do a similar job. Don't forget he has only played for 3 seasons at AFL level. I have faith in him.

As for the kicking, if you get the ball as much as he does you are bound to muck up on occasions.

Cannibal · Post by **Cannibal** » Tue May 25, 2004 9:08 am

Lay off Goughie, people. Good point comparing him to Shaw/Williams, Newelly. Most of his knockers seem to forget that he is still very young. Tony Shaw won a Norm Smith medal in a Premiership team but was in his 13th year as a player with the club at the time and ended up playing 313 games for the club over 17 years. In time, Goughie will be just as important and he could be around for another 10 years. Sure, he's slow and can't kick long but he gets the ball and that's an attribute we need in the middle.

perthmagpie · Post by **perthmagpie** » Wed May 26, 2004 12:03 am

We all know MCG's kicking is not up to scratch. That is his weakness. He is not quick, but he has that uncanny sense in knowing how much time and space he has. You get those guys on a list sometimes who look deceptively slow. He is one of our best 4 ball getters in close. He's a born ball magnet at such a young age. Man you don't give those guys away. We take that and hone it and work on his weakness. He has superb vision and ability to win the ball from the centre and find a teammate with a scrambled handball. Theres nothing wrong with his handball technique.

The comparison with Tony Shaw and Williams is a good one. The exception being kicking style. They kicked with a unpenetrative, chipping style whereas MCG is still kicking it too high like Clokey (and his Dad did).
He'll never look pretty when kicking, but so what. He'll get better and he has the natural strong body to play for a decade. I have no doubts. And last but not least, he lives for footy and is 100% dedicated to
improving.

Just play him!!

Post by **Newelly** » Wed May 26, 2004 12:39 am

At the moment his disposal problems aren't helped by our general lack of run. So many players look unfit and/or burdened with injuries. During the years Williams and Shaw had their best seasons they were part of teams that consisted of several great running players of whom they could quickly pass off the ball to.

Doc63 · Post by **Doc63** » Wed May 26, 2004 3:42 pm

Johnson#26 wrote:I don't think we've ever seen Kinnears best.

Yes we have, and its pathetic. We wont even be able to trade Williams & Kinnear. Who would take them & what would they give us in return??

Johnson#26 · Post by **Johnson#26** » Wed May 26, 2004 4:22 pm

A team like the Bulldogs may take a punt on Willo. I'd love to see him hang around but at the moment he is drasticly out of form.

As for Benny, he might be a chance at the Crows, seeing he is a Adelaide boy from his junior days and with the possibilty that Carey will go at the seasons end, they may want a tall forward.

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#19 Andrew Williams