Kreuzer to Pies??

[swoop42]

For the record:

http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/ ... euzer.html

http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/ ... Jolly.html

[AN_Inkling]

If you feel that our premiership window opens from 2017 onwards (with a sneaky chance of top 6 next season) then obtaining a ruckman who'll be turning 27 in May next year and presumably smack bang at the beginning of there prime years does make some sense.

Having two young rucks of similar age and developing as ruck options along a comparable timeline has it's problems with one likely to end up spending considerable time in the VFL. Realistically neither will be a dominant ruck until season 2018 at the earliest after our window has opened.

No doubt we never envisaged Grundy falling into our lap at pick 18 with Witts very much seen as our long term ruck prospect at the time.

I believe the club has also been genuinely stunned by the rapid development of Cox this season.

Both of those players make the notion of trading Witts for something of value a possibility.

Of course the risk in obtaining Kreuzer is real with genuine question marks surrounding his body holding up into the future.

Then there is the issue of what he would cost.

He isn't worth more than $450,000 a year IMHO. $500,000 max only if a suitable trade for Witts is found.

Whether or not that figure would be enough or he's even worth the risk at any cost is up for debate.

Yep, it would be good to have a mature ruck when we are challenging. Kruezer's not my preferred option but there is sense in it.

[GoWoodsmen]

If you feel that our premiership window opens from 2017 onwards (with a sneaky chance of top 6 next season) then obtaining a ruckman who'll be turning 27 in May next year and presumably smack bang at the beginning of there prime years does make some sense.

Having two young rucks of similar age and developing as ruck options along a comparable timeline has it's problems with one likely to end up spending considerable time in the VFL. Realistically neither will be a dominant ruck until season 2018 at the earliest after our window has opened.

No doubt we never envisaged Grundy falling into our lap at pick 18 with Witts very much seen as our long term ruck prospect at the time.

I believe the club has also been genuinely stunned by the rapid development of Cox this season.

Both of those players make the notion of trading Witts for something of value a possibility.

Of course the risk in obtaining Kreuzer is real with genuine question marks surrounding his body holding up into the future.

Then there is the issue of what he would cost.

He isn't worth more than $450,000 a year IMHO. $500,000 max only if a suitable trade for Witts is found.

Whether or not that figure would be enough or he's even worth the risk at any cost is up for debate.

Yep, it would be good to have a mature ruck when we are challenging. Kruezer's not my preferred option but there is sense in it.

While the logic might be sound I can't get one word out of my head when I think of Kruezer coming to us. NO! No, no, no thanks, nup, do not collect $200, do not pass go. Have watched him play a bit and just don't think he offers anything we don't already have. Is there upside to him? Not sure. I dunno... gut feel... yuck! But of course if the filth did decide to trade then we'll welcome him with open arms and cross every limb!

[jatsad]

If you are comparing Kreuzer and Witts on pure ability and footy know-how, then it's Kreuzer by the length of the straight.

You take the chance on soundness of body though.

But if Witts can help get Treloar over easier, then do it.

[AN_Inkling]

If you are comparing Kreuzer and Witts on pure ability and footy know-how, then it's Kreuzer by the length of the straight.

You take the chance on soundness of body though.

But if Witts can help get Treloar over easier, then do it.

I think you're right. Trading for Treloar won't be easy because he's not our only target. Whether Aish or someone else, we will be looking for another deal. I think it's very likely to be pick 1 and a player for Treloar and to me the most likely player is Witts.

It's very interesting that mid-season when we had crucial games Witts and Grundy were played together. It was to the detriment of the team but needed for their development. Then later in the year when games were less important Witts couldn't get a game. Smells like we're looking to deal him. Selection doesn't make much sense otherwise.

[neil]

^^I don't actually want him. He's never been good as a forward so isn't a great fit in combination with Grundy anyway. Wouldn't be dead against his signing, but I don't think he's a good option.

So Play Cox instead?

No play Witts or even White
How an import from the US who has played one season of football in his life and at VFL level has become the messiah to all problem ruck/forward related is beyond me.

[John Wren]

If you are comparing Kreuzer and Witts on pure ability and footy know-how, then it's Kreuzer by the length of the straight.

You take the chance on soundness of body though.

But if Witts can help get Treloar over easier, then do it.

I think you're right. Trading for Treloar won't be easy because he's not our only target. Whether Aish or someone else, we will be looking for another deal. I think it's very likely to be pick 1 and a player for Treloar and to me the most likely player is Witts.

It's very interesting that mid-season when we had crucial games Witts and Grundy were played together. It was to the detriment of the team but needed for their development. Then later in the year when games were less important Witts couldn't get a game. Smells like we're looking to deal him. Selection doesn't make much sense otherwise.

at the time, bucks very pointedly said we had two no.1 rucks.

[swoop42]

If you feel that our premiership window opens from 2017 onwards (with a sneaky chance of top 6 next season) then obtaining a ruckman who'll be turning 27 in May next year and presumably smack bang at the beginning of there prime years does make some sense.

Having two young rucks of similar age and developing as ruck options along a comparable timeline has it's problems with one likely to end up spending considerable time in the VFL. Realistically neither will be a dominant ruck until season 2018 at the earliest after our window has opened.

No doubt we never envisaged Grundy falling into our lap at pick 18 with Witts very much seen as our long term ruck prospect at the time.

I believe the club has also been genuinely stunned by the rapid development of Cox this season.

Both of those players make the notion of trading Witts for something of value a possibility.

Of course the risk in obtaining Kreuzer is real with genuine question marks surrounding his body holding up into the future.

Then there is the issue of what he would cost.

He isn't worth more than $450,000 a year IMHO. $500,000 max only if a suitable trade for Witts is found.

Whether or not that figure would be enough or he's even worth the risk at any cost is up for debate.

Yep, it would be good to have a mature ruck when we are challenging. Kruezer's not my preferred option but there is sense in it.

Kreuzer is only an option because of F/A.

Getting him for nothing then receiving something of genuine value for Witts is the main reason you'd contemplate it.

[AN_Inkling]

^^Yeah I know. Haven't looked at it, but are Luenberger or Clarke also free agents?

I don't think Kruezer is ideal, but seriously if we add Kruezer and Treloar for Witts and our first round pick then we've taken a huge step forward.

[swoop42]

If we decide to pursue Kreuzer and land him then effectively we will cock block a number of sides searching for a ruck which in turn should make Witts a more valuable trade commodity.

Well played Collingwood.

What is the latest pick you would accept for Witts?

Bulldogs first round selection?

Carlton and pick 19 could come into play.

Sydney with the highly rated Mills needing to be secured would need to offer up a player.

S.Reid would be ideal but probably not affordable.

Essendon need a ruck but unlikely they'd be willing to deal on Carlisle even with something extra thrown in. Like S.Reid probably not affordable.

Part of the Treloar deal to save on picks required to obtain him or for a juicy extra on the side?

[AN_Inkling]

Hopefully we sign him for $449,000 and prevent the Blues receiving band 1 compensation. I don't think it likely though.

[RudeBoy]

I reckon if we traded our first draft pick plus Witts for Treloar, then we might get their 2nd draft pick back as well. We could package that up with another player and maybe another 2nd round draft pick for Kreuzer. I'm not sure what value would be on Aish, but since he has not been a regular lions player this year, we may well get him as a straight swap for Seedsman.

That would be a great outcome. What I don't want us to do is to trade away any next year's picks we will need to secure young Daicos. My only worry is that this would all mean we would probably miss out on Weideman, which would be a shame. Still, there's a lot of stuff to play out before we know what will happen. The great thing is that it looks like we've persuaded Treloar to request a trade to us. That puts us in the box seat. He certainly has all the attributes to be one of the best midfielders over the next decade, and that's just what we need.

[Wokko]

Kreuzer is a free agent, no need for trades, just a "show me the money" scenario.

[AN_Inkling]

Aish will not be a straight swap for Seedsman. He's played 11 games this year despite injury and finished 4th in the Rising Star in his first year. As a number 7 pick he will definitely cost us more. Lions will be after a first round pick.

With our focus on Treloar I wouldn't be surprised if Aish went elsewhere, especially as we also look to be chasing a ruck.

[RudeBoy]

Kreuzer is a free agent, no need for trades, just a "show me the money" scenario.

I forgot about that Wokko. Even better.