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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:19 pm
by MatthewBoydFanClub
Presti35 wrote:Something else that comes to mind is what if we got up yesterday?
Surely you'd think Johnson would be dropped. That leaves the question of Krueger or Oli Henry coming in, even if only as sub. If Cox was also to miss, gee whizz. Henry would be certain to play.
That would have made things very interesting.
That's exactly what would have happened. Ash Johnson must have been very close to being dropped after the Freemantle game, but had a very good game against Geelong, which would have made him unlucky to lose his spot for the Sydney game. However had we beaten Sydney I'm sure the two who would have come into our GF team would have been Kreuger and Henry (Cox injured and Johnson dropped) with Carmichael made the sub.
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:45 am
by Uncle Jack
Maybe it's not about a move to Geelong, but a return to acting.
He was pretty good in 'Warm Bodies'
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:03 am
by Pies4shaw
Pies2016 wrote:Pies4shaw wrote:^ I disagree. From a business perspective, you need to rule a line. If he does want out, then we shouldn't accept low picks for him - unless we desperately need the points for something I don't know about. Absent that remote possibility, we should tell anyone who offers us a pick in the 30s to **** off. We used pick 16 to draft him and would have wasted two seasons of development on him. At 29 you get Ryan Cook or (dare I mention him) Beams. We have enough average mids running around in the VFL as it is, without clogging the list with more of them.
I still haven't forgiven them for taking pick 57 for Witts after putting years of development work into him. Sometimes, making the best of a bad situation in an environment where you are a repeat player means sending a serious message - we can't make you stay but if you're a "want out" after your initial contract just for the sake of it, you can rot in the pre-season draft. It isn't like he's from somewhere near Katherine and hasn't adjusted to living in the City and would like a trade back home - it's 40 minutes from Melbourne to Geelong, so how home-sick could he be? If he does want out, it's just a whim and no properly-run business should indulge it.
I’m only reminding everyone how history will likely dictate this outcome. If the club wants to put ego and “ principles “ before a late second round pick ( # 30 odd ) then that’s on them. Me, I’m taking it and cutting my losses and making the best of a bad situation. For every Brayden Cook, there’s a Lipinski in the mid forties too.
I’m also GUESSING Henrys reluctance to sign came as a surprise to them and that they would have squirrelled away enough money to renew his contract. If that’s the case, then don’t be surprised if Collingwood are into another player that hasn’t been discussed yet. Surely, IF you are going to add yet another player into your list, you might as well have that pick around 30 odd as trading currency.
If it were only the one business transaction, I would agree completely. We are, of course, repeat players and I’m not comfortable with the Club delivering an implied message that we can use our first round pick on a player, want to extend that player’s contract after putting two development years into them but then accept a “trade” that sees us accept a pick worth a fraction of the value of the pick we used on the player. So, I don’t see that sort of transaction as a potentially appropriate “fold” but rather as a weak position that has the likely consequence of other players thinking that they can leave on a whim. If he wanted to “go home” and he wasn’t in our plans, that’d be fine - but he’s genuinely a required player and I don’t think we can take such a shellacking because the market message that sends is very, very wrong.
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:35 am
by neds elbow
It would be criminal to let him go without a fight. He has shown he can win games off his own boot. Outside of Elliott we don't have any other marking forward capable of doing the same.
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:42 am
by MJ23
After watching us this year - never giving up no matter what was against us. How they play for each other and the jumper. The Hurt on the faces of our kids at the prelim loss........quite frankly, I dont want anyone at the club that doesn't want to be there or wants to extort us over money IF we have a fair offer on the table.
I don't care how good they are or could be.
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:54 am
by tbaker
The club must do what it can to get him to stay. The decision to not play him in the last h&a games likely came back to bite us in the finals, unfortunately. Granted, Ash Johnson did ok in many of those last h&a games, but Henry's efforts in big moments in previous games were more significant. Henry could, and did, just about win games off his own boot.
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:30 pm
by Presti35
Uncle Jack wrote:Maybe it's not about a move to Geelong, but a return to acting.
He was pretty good in 'Warm Bodies'
I knew I wasn't the only one.
Also the girl in that is Stewart Dews ex-GF, so there's more to this.
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:41 pm
by Presti35
In the chance that Henry leaves and we get pick 17/18 (depending the result on Saturday); what could that pick along with pick 16 land us?
I really dont expect WCE to trade pick 2 to Melbourne, with that pick coming to us for Grundy, but imagine having 2, 16, and 17/18. Those three picks gets us in the conversation for just about anyone if we could get them to nominate Collingwood.
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:41 pm
by Pies2016
^^^
I’d expect with those three picks ( Pies, Dees, Cats ) however the pick machinations would look, we would likely bundle up at least two of our first three picks and work our way to the pointy end of the draft. If we can get inside the first dozen picks, we would get access to one of a couple very highly rated talls ( Camden, Busslinger or Jefferson ) assuming the club rates them of course. Something like bundling up our first rounder and the Grundy pick would easily get it done.
I don’t see us having the cap space to land a quality player, even though that’s what a pick inside the top ten could generate.
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:43 pm
by Piesnchess
Just to piss bloody sleepy hollow Geebung off, I hope Ollie stays with us.
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:46 pm
by Mr Miyagi
I hope Ollie stays and like his twin brother Nicholas Hoult turns into the blue Beast from the X Men
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:02 pm
by gurugeoff
Presti35 wrote:Uncle Jack wrote:Maybe it's not about a move to Geelong, but a return to acting.
He was pretty good in 'Warm Bodies'
I knew I wasn't the only one.
Also the girl in that is Stewart Dews ex-GF, so there's more to this.
Me too, he is a “dead ringer”. (Nice little movie)
If we are only going to get pick 30 back for a pick 17 and two years of development, then he can go into the draft. Why make Geelong stronger.
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:36 pm
by Pies2016
gurugeoff wrote:Presti35 wrote:Uncle Jack wrote:Maybe it's not about a move to Geelong, but a return to acting.
He was pretty good in 'Warm Bodies'
I knew I wasn't the only one.
Also the girl in that is Stewart Dews ex-GF, so there's more to this.
Me too, he is a “dead ringer”. (Nice little movie)
If we are only going to get pick 30 back for a pick 17 and two years of development, then he can go into the draft. Why make Geelong stronger.
I get the angst but why wouldn’t you take pick 30 ( example ) if that’s what it took to get Fiorini ( or whoever ) over the line. There is a possibility the return from Geelong, even at pick 30 could be turned into a better outcome than keeping Henry but there is absolutely zero chance of accepting nothing and then turning into something. By walking him to the draft, I agree we’re not making Geelong POTENTIALLY any stronger but we are also definitely making ourselves weaker as the trade / draft table.
We currently don’t even have a second rounder in this draft. To potentially throw that away and diminish our own trade hand doesn’t make great sense to me, particularly when mid range second rounders can usually net you an ok player on occasions. ( Lipinski in the early forties )
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:54 pm
by The General
Pies2016 wrote:gurugeoff wrote:Presti35 wrote:
I knew I wasn't the only one.
Also the girl in that is Stewart Dews ex-GF, so there's more to this.
Me too, he is a “dead ringer”. (Nice little movie)
If we are only going to get pick 30 back for a pick 17 and two years of development, then he can go into the draft. Why make Geelong stronger.
I get the angst but why wouldn’t you take pick 30 ( example ) if that’s what it took to get Fiorini ( or whoever ) over the line. There is a possibility the return from Geelong, even at pick 30 could be turned into a better outcome than keeping Henry but there is absolutely zero chance of accepting nothing and then turning into something. By walking him to the draft, I agree we’re not making Geelong POTENTIALLY any stronger but we are also definitely making ourselves weaker as the trade / draft table.
We currently don’t even have a second rounder in this draft. To potentially throw that away and diminish our own trade hand doesn’t make great sense to me, particularly when mid range second rounders can usually net you an ok player on occasions. ( Lipinski in the early forties )
The above is could be correct, however.....
1) There is a chance that someone else will take him in the draft before Geelong gets a pick.
2) If he does last to Geelong's first pick, Geelong actually has to use a pick on him. Assuming it is pick 18ish, it costs them more then the pick 30 you suggest above.
Yes, we could be making ourselves weaker, but sometimes you have to make a stand. Geelong may then come to the party and increase their offer to us. It's just a matter of seeing who flinches first.
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:07 pm
by Hitchhiker
I think I get your point, but I'm still baffled at the value placed on draft picks in trades.
The draft is a lottery, outside the top 5 or 10 the odds of getting a 200 gamer seem slim.
Despite that, draft trades look like the recipient club believe they will be the one lucky enough to draft Fyffe at 22 or Cripps at 13. There seems to be an unrealistic value placed on the future draft pick being the one to grab you a star
Henry looks to be a good selection at 17. He has talent and has shown the ability to be along term AFL player.
If any club drafted him at 17 would they be upset? It seems absurd to me that after showing he is AFL quality, he could be valued at something less