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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:18 pm
by Pebbles Rocks
His wage and trade value cannot be separated in this instance. He is also 28yo with 5 years remaining which also has to be considered.
The more we pay of his future wage, the more we should receive in terms of players/picks.
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:42 pm
by Pies2016
Good question. Difficult answer and I’m really struggling to put a trade pick value to his worth elsewhere.
What I would say is that he may well be worth two first rounders but that example can be anything from two top five picks through to 2 x pick 18s and that’s a gulf of difference.
I agree with Pebbles ( should a trade occur ) the more we pay of his future wage, the more we would likely receive as a return.
Also, the more interest, the more the scales are tipped in our favour.
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:13 pm
by think positive
yes another grundy thread is just what we need!
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:15 pm
by magpieazza
Thanks for your response PR & P2016. Im not as crazy as I thought I was.
Taking into consideration his age and contract is all part of the equation however all I needed to hear was his value in a ball park figure free of all the other conditions ( contract length wage injury etc ) and I would say anywhere between 2 x top five picks to 2 x top 20 picks is fair and a good base to start with. Then I would start calculating his wages and contract length into the trade worth from that foundation.
If there is a competitive demand in the market place it could be wise to take an above market trade.,especially if it allows us to still keep JDG, get McStay as a utility, get Tarranto and possibly keep our first round pick. As has been mentioned also there could be opportunity to pick up a cheap mature ruckman ala Geelong style.
As Ive said before Im all for keeping Grundy simply because hes a great player.
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:16 pm
by Damien
In any trade you gotta look at how it will affect the other club in relation to us. In this case Geelong and Melbourne are our immediate rivals for a Premiership; therefore why give them a leg up.
We should be keeping Grundy, end of story.
And why the hell are we talking about Tim Taranto? Did you see him against us a few weeks ago? Pathetic.
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:17 pm
by magpieazza
think positive wrote:yes another grundy thread is just what we need!
Pretty pertinent question and worth chatting about i thought. If its not your piece of cake put it back in the fridge and close the door.
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:22 pm
by Boot
Hopefully Collingwood holds the upper hand in any negotiations for Grundy's services for next year in that we are not in as dire salary cap position as when the Treloar trade occurred. The good sign is that there appears to be a lot of clubs who like the idea of adding Grundy to their team and if the current premiership team sees the benefit of having Grundy when they already have the next best ruckman in their team then that should make other clubs realise that having at least one elite ruckman in the team is a pre-requisite to being successful in September.
Such demand makes for a "sellers" market and as long as Grundy doesn't come out and nominate only one club he will play for, which he shouldn't since he is already committed to Collingwood for the next 5 years, then let the bidding begin on what opposition clubs will offer for one of the few elite ruckmen in the AFL. The only snag in this plan is that Grundy may well let it be known that he only wants to play for a particular club. Then it becomes a stand-off about who blinks first with the option of Grundy being forced to stay at Collingwood to honor his contract and causing Collingwood to make the most of their salary cap woes and having a wealth of quality ruckmen. The question of motivation for Grundy to "give his all" after clearly being considered expendable by Collingwood is a potential worry, but footballers are often put through the ringer by their clubs and go on to be terrific contributors to the clubs success. e.g. the Swans were able to convince Ryan O'Keefe and Tom Papley to stay after they asked for a clearance but were held to their contract's and O'Keefe won a Norm Smith medal while Papley has played well for the past couple of years after failing to get to Carlton.
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:42 pm
by Boot
And why the hell are we talking about Tim Taranto? Did you see him against us a few weeks ago? Pathetic.[/quote]
Tim Taranto has "checked out" of GWS. At his best he is an elite midfielder, who was GWS B&F in their 2019 Grand Final year and a No.2 draft pick in his draft year. Not a bad get to be another potential replacement for an aging Pendlebury.
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:35 pm
by piffdog
Damien wrote:In any trade you gotta look at how it will affect the other club in relation to us. In this case Geelong and Melbourne are our immediate rivals for a Premiership; therefore why give them a leg up.
We should be keeping Grundy, end of story.
And why the hell are we talking about Tim Taranto? Did you see him against us a few weeks ago? Pathetic.
I don't subscribe to this theory. We should be backing ourselves in that regardless of how much better clubs might be if they had our players, we will be better with a) the players we bring in as a consequence and b) our own development. Keeping a player that might not be the perfect solution for us just someone else cant have them is a poor way to manage your list.
Did you look at DeGoey a couple weeks ago? He was pretty pathetic too (vs Suns).
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:42 pm
by piffdog
If we are offering to pay $300k as has been reported, it would be nice to get a couple of juicy picks (their first and second rounder?) Their first and a future first/second? Melbourne and Cats are right in the window so may be prepared to trade away future draft position.
We should continue to try and stockpile as much talent as we can which would help sustain us in the upper ranks of the ladder for 10 years.
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:44 pm
by ANNODAM
We keep him, I don’t wanna be paying 300K to a rival club, what so they can smash us?
Did we learn nothing from the Treloar debacle?
Fk that!
What do WE get in return?
Of course if Grundy wants to leave, then we negotiate.
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:45 pm
by LaurieHolden
Mods, suggest merge this into the Trading Grundy thread. And every other new thread on the subject.
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:25 pm
by Piesnchess
OK you Deeees Toffs, and Hillbilly Gawn, who sat in on this fiasco, give us Petracca and Jackson for him, and its done deal. Nothing less.
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:29 pm
by Piesnchess
ANNODAM wrote:We keep him, I don’t wanna be paying 300K to a rival club, what so they can smash us?
Did we learn nothing from the Treloar debacle?
Fk that!
What do WE get in return?
Of course if Grundy wants to leave, then we negotiate.
I dont always agree with you, but you are 100% correct, NO more paying another powerful club, part of his salary, so he and them, can kick the liviing shit out of us. Nope, been there, done that. Come on Wright, get off ur backside and sink this crap rumour good and proper, cos we sure aint going down THAT dire road again, thats for sure pal.
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:34 pm
by Piesnchess
Boot wrote:Piesnchess wrote:TO THOSE NAIVE TO WARM TO A GRUNDY TRADE TOO DEEEES, imagine this nightmare scenario, he goes to them, joins Gawn in dynamic duo, they make next yrs GF, so do we, Melb v Coll. Cox, Cameron v the two Superstars in ruck. Close game, anyones, Oliver dashes out of centre, 2 mins to go, passes to Grundy, who calmly seals the slender lead they have, with a goal, hes kicked two others earlier. Siren goes, he dances happily with Hillbilly Gawn, while our guys look on, sadly. Chew that one over if you will.
I don't want to loose Grundy from Collingwood, but I've now got the feeling that to enable other pieces to fall into the Collingwood picture (i.e. DeGoey staying, Tim Taranto, Tanner Bruhn, Daniel McStay & Bobby Hill joining the team) then Collingwood has to get the salary cap room of moving Grundy on to someone else. I can understand that this may have been Graeme Wright's "Sophie's Choice" moment.
The above nightmare scenario raised by Piesnchess is indeed a frightening thought, however a more optimistic scenario might be;
Collingwood facing Melbourne in the 2023 Grand Final has become the stuff of dreams after both teams have dominated all other comers during the 2023 season and being the past two premiership winning teams. Collingwood has continued to dominate the Demons in the home and away games with solid victories during the 2023 season led by 2023 Brownlow medalist Tim Taranto getting 3 Brownlow votes in each of the games against Melbourne. After an incredibly tight high standard game where the midfield battle has raged all day between Melbourne's Grundy, Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw and Viney vs Collingwoods Cox, DeGoey, Taranto, Pendelbury, Crisp and Adams there is two minutes remaining with scores level after Bobby Hill burnt the Demon's defenders off with a blistering burst of pace, to pounce on a contested ball and run into an open goal to bring Collingwood to within 5 points behind the Demons. At the center bounce to restart the last two minutes of play Grundy taps the ball to his own feet and a subsequent contest results in another ball-up whilst wasting vital seconds. The subsequent rucking contest has Grundy again tap the ball to his feet but Adams forces the ball forward only to see the combination of Oliver and Petracca get the ball to a forward running Viney. Viney kicks long into the Melbourne forward 50 towards a leading Max Gawn only to see Daniel McStay execute the perfect spoil by punching the ball from Gawn's grasp in-field where Pendlebury gathers, baulks through heavy traffic before short passing to Nick Daicos on the back flank who switches play to his brother Josh running through the center of the ground with a sizzling 50 meter pass that Josh doesn't have to break stride before marking and running his full measure of 15 meters before kicking the goal that gives Collingwood a 1 point lead with 30 seconds left on the clock. With mayhem breaking out in the crowd, the Collingwood chant at it's loudest the ball is bounced in the middle and Grundy taps it to his own feet for another contested ball wasting another 15 seconds and the umpire calls for another ball-up which Grundy again taps to his own feet only to see another contest develop which wastes another 15 seconds at which time the siren sounds to give Collingwood back-to-back premierships. Tanner Bruhn is awarded the Norm Smith medal having played a blinder of a game on the wing for Collingwood.
Ahh, the stuff of dreams!
Yep, I love your dream, must better than mine. LOL, mind you, I still get nervous even now, over that Tiprat bounce in 2010 first GF, if you get my drift.
