Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board

Lazza wrote:

thompsoc wrote:

stoliboy wrote:
Sources suggest Cloke will be traded for a draft pick outside of the second round, although there is a chance the Magpies will request a player who has been deprived of opportunities at Whitten Oval.

Is this a joke?

With you on this one Thomsoc. United we stand together.

It has to be a bloody joke. If Collingwood don't get a first rounder, 2 second rounders or a gun player for Cloke, we are being Royally screwed.

Like i have said before, just for a moment Lazza take your Collingwood hat off....If he was at the dogs and we were chasing him would you be happy for the Pies to hand over pick.25?

I for one would be saying to the Dogs ..here is our round 4 selection take it or leave it....I have no issues if the dogs were to say the same to us.

That VFL match where he missed the shot from the goal square speaks volumes about where he is at as a footballer.

He may well turn it around and play well for the dogs.....but gee they are the ones taking a massive punt on him. I agree with others he is a shadow of the player he once was. And that is a sad thing.

derkd wrote:

Lazza wrote:

thompsoc wrote: Is this a joke?

With you on this one Thomsoc. United we stand together.

It has to be a bloody joke. If Collingwood don't get a first rounder, 2 second rounders or a gun player for Cloke, we are being Royally screwed.

Like i have said before, just for a moment Lazza take your Collingwood hat off....If he was at the dogs and we were chasing him would you be happy for the Pies to hand over pick.25?

I for one would be saying to the Dogs ..here is our round 4 selection take it or leave it....I have no issues if the dogs were to say the same to us.

That VFL match where he missed the shot from the goal square speaks volumes about where he is at as a footballer.

He may well turn it around and play well for the dogs.....but gee they are the ones taking a massive punt on him. I agree with others he is a shadow of the player he once was. And that is a sad thing.

All true but you don't pursue a player unless you believe he will benefit your team. I believe somewhere in between your 2 views to be fair.

AnthonyC wrote:Not sure how my comment related to how well he was liked too? Was just trying to draw comparisons, of which none were initially referred to. I reckon if you ask a few people (not myself as such) you might get some answers that he his being pushed, Darcy is Numero Uno.

Sav was played out of position in my opinion which probably led to his demise at the Pies, FF and that should have been it. Another argument anyway.

What conclusion would you draw out of the fact that he asked to leave? Like you say who knows, who really knows? He was out of favour for whatever reason. That's not a sign of love, that's the cold shoulder.

Simply not true what you're saying about Sav. Played all year at FF under MM. Not dropped and not moved. Then moved on at the end of the year correctly in my view to give Anthony more opportunity. It was Tony Shaw who destroyed Say's confidence by benching him whenever Say didn't boot goals, something MM never did.

Lazza, the going rate for a player not getting senior games more than about half the time is anywhere between a third rounder and nothing at all. For a player close to 30, it's even less than that.

Now add a bit because Cloke in his pomp was the best contested mark in the competition, and he still has the strength and judgment to recapture that form. Maybe.

If they offer a third round pick, take it. If they offer a second-round pick, accept it as a miracle and move on.

I can see Cloke doing well at the Doggies: fresh start, different team, different way of delivering the ill into the forward line, wouldn't surprise me to see him being a great catch for them. Wouldn't surprise me to see him get 10 patchy games and play out his contract in the twos either. You just don't know.. But one thing is for sure: as a Collingwood player, Cloke is finished. If he stays here, he won't do much for us, and that's no good for him either. We are better off without him (even if we only get pick 150), and he is way better off with a fresh start. Good for us, good for him, good for the Doggies too.

So ... why do we play on him when the time comes? Brown is the only one with the strength to match Cloke, but I reckon Trav would make a real mess of Brown. Reid has the pace and the leap, probably our best option. Frost would do really well unless Cloke choses to wrestle, in which case Frosty would get rag dolled. (Ditto Reid. Ditto Marsh.)

Dunno. I think I'd give Frost a crack at him, but there is no right answer.

Tannin wrote:Lazza, the going rate for a player not getting senior games more than about half the time is anywhere between a third rounder and nothing at all. For a player close to 30, it's even less than that.

Now add a bit because Cloke in his pomp was the best contested mark in the competition, and he still has the strength and judgment to recapture that form. Maybe.

If they offer a third round pick, take it. If they offer a second-round pick, accept it as a miracle and move on.

I can see Cloke doing well at the Doggies: fresh start, different team, different way of delivering the ill into the forward line, wouldn't surprise me to see him being a great catch for them. Wouldn't surprise me to see him get 10 patchy games and play out his contract in the twos either. You just don't know.. But one thing is for sure: as a Collingwood player, Cloke is finished. If he stays here, he won't do much for us, and that's no good for him either. We are better off without him (even if we only get pick 150), and he is way better off with a fresh start. Good for us, good for him, good for the Doggies too.

So ... why do we play on him when the time comes? Brown is the only one with the strength to match Cloke, but I reckon Trav would make a real mess of Brown. Reid has the pace and the leap, probably our best option. Frost would do really well unless Cloke choses to wrestle, in which case Frosty would get rag dolled. (Ditto Reid. Ditto Marsh.)

Dunno. I think I'd give Frost a crack at him, but there is no right answer.

Part of Cloke's problem has been that too often he is standing there wrestling. That makes it very easy for the second defender to get a fist in. It's not too often any more that a big forward only has his direct opponent to deal with in front of goal. If that occurs, there has probably been a break down in the defence.

Tannin wrote:Lazza, the going rate for a player not getting senior games more than about half the time is anywhere between a third rounder and nothing at all. For a player close to 30, it's even less than that.

Now add a bit because Cloke in his pomp was the best contested mark in the competition, and he still has the strength and judgment to recapture that form. Maybe.

If they offer a third round pick, take it. If they offer a second-round pick, accept it as a miracle and move on.

I can see Cloke doing well at the Doggies: fresh start, different team, different way of delivering the ill into the forward line, wouldn't surprise me to see him being a great catch for them. Wouldn't surprise me to see him get 10 patchy games and play out his contract in the twos either. You just don't know.. But one thing is for sure: as a Collingwood player, Cloke is finished. If he stays here, he won't do much for us, and that's no good for him either. We are better off without him (even if we only get pick 150), and he is way better off with a fresh start. Good for us, good for him, good for the Doggies too.

So ... why do we play on him when the time comes? Brown is the only one with the strength to match Cloke, but I reckon Trav would make a real mess of Brown. Reid has the pace and the leap, probably our best option. Frost would do really well unless Cloke choses to wrestle, in which case Frosty would get rag dolled. (Ditto Reid. Ditto Marsh.)

Dunno. I think I'd give Frost a crack at him, but there is no right answer.

A third round pick is one in the 50's from the Dogs.
Some clubs start thinking of passing when they get close to these numbers.
I don't believe Cloke is worth so little.
The guy is not 32 plus.

jackcass wrote:

derkd wrote:

Lazza wrote: With you on this one Thomsoc. United we stand together.

It has to be a bloody joke. If Collingwood don't get a first rounder, 2 second rounders or a gun player for Cloke, we are being Royally screwed.

Like i have said before, just for a moment Lazza take your Collingwood hat off....If he was at the dogs and we were chasing him would you be happy for the Pies to hand over pick.25?

I for one would be saying to the Dogs ..here is our round 4 selection take it or leave it....I have no issues if the dogs were to say the same to us.

That VFL match where he missed the shot from the goal square speaks volumes about where he is at as a footballer.

He may well turn it around and play well for the dogs.....but gee they are the ones taking a massive punt on him. I agree with others he is a shadow of the player he once was. And that is a sad thing.

All true but you don't pursue a player unless you believe he will benefit your team. I believe somewhere in between your 2 views to be fair.

They offer a third round....I would take it and run. I just can't see it any higher then that....if it is well then I will tip my hat.

What do you say to people who believe between your 2 views to be fair does not exist?

How come when it comes to trade deals our players to be worth zero to nothing. If Cloke was at another club coming to us..he would be touted by his club as ..A premiership player. Age still good for 5 yrs, still one of the best contested marks in the league, a player that takes 2 opponents out of the occasion in a duel, fantastic clubman etc, etc
Forget that his time is up for Collingwood, I get that and agree. What I don't get, or want, is us to get bent over and pay heftily like other clubs do to us. If people are sayin he's only worth a 50+ pick, then I'm on planet Clare and know zilch about the caper. Geezus get a grip people. Play hardball Pies!

BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: Simply not true what you're saying about Sav. Played all year at FF under MM. Not dropped and not moved. Then moved on at the end of the year correctly in my view to give Anthony more opportunity. It was Tony Shaw who destroyed Say's confidence by benching him whenever Say didn't boot goals, something MM never did.

I agree. I didn't mean to infer that MM played him out of position. I'm sure I've said it here before. Simply saying that's what led to his demise. No doubt that MM was not a fan though.

skaman wrote:How come when it comes to trade deals our players to be worth zero to nothing. If Cloke was at another club coming to us..he would be touted by his club as ..A premiership player. Age still good for 5 yrs, still one of the best contested marks in the league, a player that takes 2 opponents out of the occasion in a duel, fantastic clubman etc, etc
Forget that his time is up for Collingwood, I get that and agree. What I don't get, or want, is us to get bent over and pay heftily like other clubs do to us. If people are sayin he's only worth a 50+ pick, then I'm on planet Clare and know zilch about the caper. Geezus get a grip people. Play hardball Pies!

For sale. One key forward. A renovator's dream. Was quite good a couple of years ago. Durable. Kicked 17 goals in last completed season. Can't get up the ground and back any more. Can't defend. Can't mark so well any more (unless using the naughty glove). Can't kick straight. Any reasonable offer accepted. Free postage to western suburbs.

derkd wrote:They offer a third round....I would take it and run. I just can't see it any higher then that....if it is well then I will tip my hat.

A 3rd round currently puts you in the 37-54 range, theirs pick 49-54. And that's before you start to factor in compo picks. I think that's unders. Their 2nd round pick currently in the 31-36 range is much closer, even if we have to offer a 4th or 5th back to balance the deal.

Now if they want to start looking at including a player back to us then that's a different discussion.

Personally, I think they've got the kids they think they need, they're trying to fill some identified needs and gaps, so it's not as critical that they hang onto their 2nd to take to the draft, Cloke fills a need.

Dogs either ante up for Cloke, or deal off, tell em to get rooted. !

Simple- You can't have a player who is not wanted at your club, spends a lot of time in the VFL and one everyone wants gone but then turn around and expect something decent in return.

Cloke is worth more than a 3rd-4th rounder, but not the way Collingwood has used him

Bulldogs will be laughing adding a quality KPP to their Semi finalist team, Collingwood will be the laughing stock, be lucky to win as many games as they did this year when they recruit all these over the old hill types everyone wants

Piesnchess wrote:Dogs either ante up for Cloke, or deal off, tell em to get rooted. !

Very eloquently put.I agree!