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There is not a hope in hell that Blair is worth pick 15. Even Melbourne at their worst wouldn't agree to that one.Piesnchess wrote:seeing our first pick next seasons draft is now a rather late 27, if blair has another average season, why not trade him to someone like the doggies, for an earlier pick, say pick 15, or too Norf, i reckon hes worth pick fifteen surely.
Domesticated_Ape wrote:Not sure Rudeboy is saying that though is he?AN_Inkling wrote:I'm probably repeating myself here... but I've never understood the thinking that "player x isn't good enough to be part of our next Premiership". It's even more difficult to understand when two of the players you list have played in a Premiership (Blair, Goldsack).RudeBoy wrote:Blair is a Premiership player and is courageous with good skills, especially good goal kicking, an asset in short supply within our team. Having said that, given the expected improvement from a host of our youngsters such as Broomhead, De Goey, Crisp, Adams as well as the impact of Greenwood, Treloar and Aish, it is clear that a player like Blair is likely to struggle to hold his place in our best 22. That's as it should be, if we are to become a genuine Premiership threat again. Ditto for White, Goldsack, Frost and Sinclair imo.
Premierships are won by teams, not individuals. Every premiership team has players who'd be considered "duds" on lesser teams but are able to carry out their specific role within a greater team. The thinking around excluding these players seems to be that they are "triers" but lack the skill or class to be Premiership players. I can't get my head around it. This is a complete inversion of what it takes to win a flag. The Blair, and for me particularly Sinclair, types are exactly those which can help you win flags. Players that never give in and never take a backward step. They may not be the best players but with their endless energy and effort, they help to drive the rest of the team. The classier types who otherwise don't put in the work are exactly those you don't want on the field in a Grand Final.
Many posters have already played this game and lost: Ben Johnson, Rhyce Shaw, Alan Toovey, Leigh Brown... were all seen as players who could "never win a flag". It's time to lay down our gloves and give in on this one. No problem with arguing over whether "player x" is good enough to get a game next week, but don't tell me he can never win a Premiership.
My take on his post is that he expects Blair to be pushed out of the 22 by younger players and for that to increase out chances of winning a flag, not that we couldn't do it with him in the team, just that it's less likely to happen.
Of course you're always going to have role players in any premiership team and Blair and Goldsack were both that in 2010. How likely are they to do it again? I would think having guys like Aish, De Goey, Broomhead..etc in your bottom 6 is going to give a better opportunity.
Seems to be saying we can't become a genuine Premiership threat if Blair is consistently getting a game. I disagree and would disagree if you substitute Blair's name with pretty much any one player.Rudeboy wrote: Blair is likely to struggle to hold his place in our best 22. That's as it should be, if we are to become a genuine Premiership threat again
Seems to be saying we can't become a genuine Premiership threat if Blair is consistently getting a game. I disagree and would disagree if you substitute Blair's name with pretty much any one player.AN_Inkling wrote:Domesticated_Ape wrote:Not sure Rudeboy is saying that though is he?AN_Inkling wrote: I'm probably repeating myself here... but I've never understood the thinking that "player x isn't good enough to be part of our next Premiership". It's even more difficult to understand when two of the players you list have played in a Premiership (Blair, Goldsack).
Premierships are won by teams, not individuals. Every premiership team has players who'd be considered "duds" on lesser teams but are able to carry out their specific role within a greater team. The thinking around excluding these players seems to be that they are "triers" but lack the skill or class to be Premiership players. I can't get my head around it
Many posters have already played this game and lost: Ben Johnson, Rhyce Shaw, Alan Toovey, Leigh Brown... were all seen as players who could "never win a flag". It's time to lay down our gloves and give in on this one. No problem with arguing over whether "player x" is good enough to get a game next week, but don't tell me he can never win a Premiership.
My take on his post is that he expects Blair to be pushed out of the 22 by younger players and for that to increase out chances of winning a flag, not that we couldn't do it with him in the team, just that it's less likely to happen.
Of course you're always going to have role players in any premiership team and Blair and Goldsack were both that in 2010. How likely are they to do it again? I would think having guys like Aish, De Goey, Broomhead..etc in your bottom 6 is going to give a better opportunity.Rudeboy wrote: Blair is likely to struggle to hold his place in our best 22. That's as it should be, if we are to become a genuine Premiership threat again
Yes. I also think we had a pretty strong list from 2010-2012.The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote:all of this may be true but really looking at our list now... do you give him any real hope of even getting a game??
You're putting words in my mouth there inky. Blair may very well play in our next Premiership team, but I think it's unlikely. The plain fact is that given the enormous input of new small/midfield talent over the past 12 months with Greenwood, Crisp, Varcoe, De Goey, Treloar, Aish as well as the improvement from players like Adams and Broomhead, the competition for small/midfield spots has become fierce. Over time, as these new players come into the team and solidify their spots, it's only natural that some players who are currently not automatic selections, will slowly be squeezed out of our side. This is not to denigrate or undervalue their contribution. A player like Blair is a Premiership player, because he has been able to stand and deliver under the heat of battle. He won't be pushed out of our side easily, but whether you like it or not inky, at some stage soon he will be pushed out. That's as it should be.AN_Inkling wrote:Domesticated_Ape wrote:Not sure Rudeboy is saying that though is he?AN_Inkling wrote: I'm probably repeating myself here... but I've never understood the thinking that "player x isn't good enough to be part of our next Premiership". It's even more difficult to understand when two of the players you list have played in a Premiership (Blair, Goldsack).
Premierships are won by teams, not individuals. Every premiership team has players who'd be considered "duds" on lesser teams but are able to carry out their specific role within a greater team. The thinking around excluding these players seems to be that they are "triers" but lack the skill or class to be Premiership players. I can't get my head around it
Many posters have already played this game and lost: Ben Johnson, Rhyce Shaw, Alan Toovey, Leigh Brown... were all seen as players who could "never win a flag". It's time to lay down our gloves and give in on this one. No problem with arguing over whether "player x" is good enough to get a game next week, but don't tell me he can never win a Premiership.
My take on his post is that he expects Blair to be pushed out of the 22 by younger players and for that to increase out chances of winning a flag, not that we couldn't do it with him in the team, just that it's less likely to happen.
Of course you're always going to have role players in any premiership team and Blair and Goldsack were both that in 2010. How likely are they to do it again? I would think having guys like Aish, De Goey, Broomhead..etc in your bottom 6 is going to give a better opportunity.Seems to be saying we can't become a genuine Premiership threat if Blair is consistently getting a game. I disagree and would disagree if you substitute Blair's name with pretty much any one player.Rudeboy wrote: Blair is likely to struggle to hold his place in our best 22. That's as it should be, if we are to become a genuine Premiership threat again
How likely is Blair to be part of a Premiership again? I don't know, he's 25, plenty young enough to get there again if the team's good enough. I don't see any reason why he'd need to be pushed out for it to happen. Goldsack's always been in and out of the team, so would be less likely. He is also 28 years old and is one that younger players will start to push out.
I'm not saying Blair won't be pushed out of our best team at some stage during 2016, it's possible, we do have a strong list, though his playing history would suggest he'll be difficult to dislodge. What I can't agree with is the view that this somehow needs to happen if we are to be a serious challenger, there's just no logic to that thinking.
True, he at least seems to have Bucks on favour, but will it be enough. I agree Proto that there will be a few playing for their careers. We'll have to wait and see. I just think he'll struggle as will a few other ''Nicks' favourites. Jmho, of course.AN_Inkling wrote:Yes. I also think we had a pretty strong list from 2010-2012.The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote:all of this may be true but really looking at our list now... do you give him any real hope of even getting a game??
YesThe Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote:all of this may be true but really looking at our list now... do you give him any real hope of even getting a game??
Well that's great, I'll strike you off the listRudeBoy wrote:You're putting words in my mouth there inky. Blair may very well play in our next Premiership team, but I think it's unlikely. The plain fact is that given the enormous input of new small/midfield talent over the past 12 months with Greenwood, Crisp, Varcoe, De Goey, Treloar, Aish as well as the improvement from players like Adams and Broomhead, the competition for small/midfield spots has become fierce. Over time, as these new players come into the team and solidify their spots, it's only natural that some players who are currently not automatic selections, will slowly be squeezed out of our side. This is not to denigrate or undervalue their contribution. A player like Blair is a Premiership player, because he has been able to stand and deliver under the heat of battle. He won't be pushed out of our side easily, but whether you like it or not inky, at some stage soon he will be pushed out. That's as it should be.AN_Inkling wrote:Domesticated_Ape wrote: Not sure Rudeboy is saying that though is he?
My take on his post is that he expects Blair to be pushed out of the 22 by younger players and for that to increase out chances of winning a flag, not that we couldn't do it with him in the team, just that it's less likely to happen.
Of course you're always going to have role players in any premiership team and Blair and Goldsack were both that in 2010. How likely are they to do it again? I would think having guys like Aish, De Goey, Broomhead..etc in your bottom 6 is going to give a better opportunity.Seems to be saying we can't become a genuine Premiership threat if Blair is consistently getting a game. I disagree and would disagree if you substitute Blair's name with pretty much any one player.Rudeboy wrote: Blair is likely to struggle to hold his place in our best 22. That's as it should be, if we are to become a genuine Premiership threat again
How likely is Blair to be part of a Premiership again? I don't know, he's 25, plenty young enough to get there again if the team's good enough. I don't see any reason why he'd need to be pushed out for it to happen. Goldsack's always been in and out of the team, so would be less likely. He is also 28 years old and is one that younger players will start to push out.
I'm not saying Blair won't be pushed out of our best team at some stage during 2016, it's possible, we do have a strong list, though his playing history would suggest he'll be difficult to dislodge. What I can't agree with is the view that this somehow needs to happen if we are to be a serious challenger, there's just no logic to that thinking.
.Hear hear!AN_Inkling wrote:I'm probably repeating myself here... but I've never understood the thinking that "player x isn't good enough to be part of our next Premiership". It's even more difficult to understand when two of the players you list have played in a Premiership (Blair, Goldsack).RudeBoy wrote:Blair is a Premiership player and is courageous with good skills, especially good goal kicking, an asset in short supply within our team. Having said that, given the expected improvement from a host of our youngsters such as Broomhead, De Goey, Crisp, Adams as well as the impact of Greenwood, Treloar and Aish, it is clear that a player like Blair is likely to struggle to hold his place in our best 22. That's as it should be, if we are to become a genuine Premiership threat again. Ditto for White, Goldsack, Frost and Sinclair imo.
Premierships are won by teams, not individuals. Every premiership team has players who'd be considered "duds" on lesser teams but are able to carry out their specific role within a greater team. The thinking around excluding these players seems to be that they are "triers" but lack the skill or class to be Premiership players. I can't get my head around it
Many posters have already played this game and lost: Ben Johnson, Rhyce Shaw, Alan Toovey, Leigh Brown... were all seen as players who could "never win a flag". It's time to lay down our gloves and give in on this one. No problem with arguing over whether "player x" is good enough to get a game next week, but don't tell me he can never win a Premiership.