Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board

Cam wrote:

eddiesmith wrote:

Cam wrote:Remembering Daisy's first game against us and how it affected him, I shudder to think about what that kind of atmosphere would do to Trav.

lol, comparing the mental midget Daisy to Travis, Dales problems were he never grew up so no surprise he struggled

I will predict he will kick 6.1 in the first game against us, 8.2 if its at the MCG

Thank you David. But back to reality.

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I will preface this by saying that my view is that the Travis of debut to mid 2014, bar his kicking for goal, would have gone down as one of the greatest AFL players of all time.
However, I am baffled by the number of people that can't see he is done. He is not the player he was and he will never get back to that level based on the history of great forwards, whose bodies get battered from pillar to post week in week out.
I called Toovey and Macaffer were gone as AFL players towards the end of 2015 based on watching them closely and seeing that the game has passed them by. I made the same call re Cloke and Brown at the same time this year and if someone is willing to taken them off our hands and give us something for them it is a win.
This does not diminish what I think of them as Collingwood premierships players and great servants of the club. I made my thoughts clear on Cloke above and Brown has been cruelled by injuries, which have significantly contributed to where his level of play is now.

There is a vast difference between Clokes. Good days and his poor days. On top of that there are too few good days.

Most people with a it of backbone will do what it takes when challenged. They get fitter, they train harder and they make every effort in making the most out of their opportunities. I must admit that I have not observed that in Cloke and from all reports he has not worked with the club in committing himself to a fitness program that would help him perform better on game days.

mooretreloar wrote:I will preface this by saying that my view is that the Travis of debut to mid 2014, bar his kicking for goal, would have gone down as one of the greatest AFL players of all time.
However, I am baffled by the number of people that can't see he is done. He is not the player he was and he will never get back to that level based on the history of great forwards, whose bodies get battered from pillar to post week in week out.

Sav Rocca had a shocker when he was 29, next 2 years bounced back and kicked bags of goals again

think positive wrote:

eddiesmith wrote:

Cam wrote:Remembering Daisy's first game against us and how it affected him, I shudder to think about what that kind of atmosphere would do to Trav.

lol, comparing the mental midget Daisy to Travis, Dales problems were he never grew up so no surprise he struggled

I will predict he will kick 6.1 in the first game against us, 8.2 if its at the MCG

Daisy's problem was his ankle. And he did us a massive favour, his body was gone. I'll always love Daisy!

+1.

As for the earlier comment Daisy a mental midget - WTF?

He was severely injured & got injured further. When he was fit he was part of a team that did well against us & he played a good role.

He was also offered a lot of money & would have been mad not to take it IMO.

eddiesmith wrote:

mooretreloar wrote:I will preface this by saying that my view is that the Travis of debut to mid 2014, bar his kicking for goal, would have gone down as one of the greatest AFL players of all time.
However, I am baffled by the number of people that can't see he is done. He is not the player he was and he will never get back to that level based on the history of great forwards, whose bodies get battered from pillar to post week in week out.

Sav Rocca had a shocker when he was 29, next 2 years bounced back and kicked bags of goals again

Sorry Mr Smith, but Travis has had 2 1/2 poor years. He will not bounce back to anywhere near his best. It is all irrelevant anyhow, he has requsted a trade and won't be with us anymore. I wish him all the best and thank him for his service. Best result for us, as we will get something for him, rather than in 12 months when he will be uncontracted.

I'd play him on a wing and tell him to stay out of the forward 50. Make him chase abit but be a link player with a licence to roam at his discretion providing he is accountable to be defensive to his opposite number when required. Like a powerful headstrong steed - he needs a free bit.

mooretreloar wrote:

eddiesmith wrote:

mooretreloar wrote:I will preface this by saying that my view is that the Travis of debut to mid 2014, bar his kicking for goal, would have gone down as one of the greatest AFL players of all time.
However, I am baffled by the number of people that can't see he is done. He is not the player he was and he will never get back to that level based on the history of great forwards, whose bodies get battered from pillar to post week in week out.

Sav Rocca had a shocker when he was 29, next 2 years bounced back and kicked bags of goals again

Sorry Mr Smith, but Travis has had 2 1/2 poor years. He will not bounce back to anywhere near his best. It is all irrelevant anyhow, he has requsted a trade and won't be with us anymore. I wish him all the best and thank him for his service. Best result for us, as we will get something for him, rather than in 12 months when he will be uncontracted.

The assertion that he has had 2.5 poor years is, of course, nonsense. He was performing well in 2015 (31 goals from 11 games) before he suffered injuries which led to him missing 5 of the last 11 games and kicking only 3 goals in the 6 games he did play. He's obviously leaving, so let's look to the future - but in doing so, there's no reason to try to re-write history. His Collingwood decline has been a very sharp one.

Pies4shaw wrote:

mooretreloar wrote:

eddiesmith wrote: Sav Rocca had a shocker when he was 29, next 2 years bounced back and kicked bags of goals again

Sorry Mr Smith, but Travis has had 2 1/2 poor years. He will not bounce back to anywhere near his best. It is all irrelevant anyhow, he has requsted a trade and won't be with us anymore. I wish him all the best and thank him for his service. Best result for us, as we will get something for him, rather than in 12 months when he will be uncontracted.

The assertion that he has had 2.5 poor years is, of course, nonsense. He was performing well in 2015 (31 goals from 11 games) before he suffered injuries which led to him missing 5 of the last 11 games and kicking only 3 goals in the 6 games he did play. He's obviously leaving, so let's look to the future - but in doing so, there's no reason to try to re-write history. His Collingwood decline has been a very sharp one.

Your view that is nonsense and that it is rewriting history. Suggest that you listen to the commentators that have played the game that agree his declined started in mid 2014.
My view is formed by watching him closely over the past 3 seasons and his decline started in mid 2014, not based on the number of goals that he kicked.

mooretreloar wrote:

Pies4shaw wrote:

mooretreloar wrote: Sorry Mr Smith, but Travis has had 2 1/2 poor years. He will not bounce back to anywhere near his best. It is all irrelevant anyhow, he has requsted a trade and won't be with us anymore. I wish him all the best and thank him for his service. Best result for us, as we will get something for him, rather than in 12 months when he will be uncontracted.

The assertion that he has had 2.5 poor years is, of course, nonsense. He was performing well in 2015 (31 goals from 11 games) before he suffered injuries which led to him missing 5 of the last 11 games and kicking only 3 goals in the 6 games he did play. He's obviously leaving, so let's look to the future - but in doing so, there's no reason to try to re-write history. His Collingwood decline has been a very sharp one.

Your view that is nonsense and that it is rewriting history. Suggest that you listen to the commentators that have played the game that agree his declined started in mid 2014.
My view is formed by watching him closely over the past 3 seasons and his decline started in mid 2014, not based on the number of goals that he kicked.

Gees, so decline equates to career best goal kicking returns like the 1st half of 2015 then. Even the start of this year when he was dropped the 1st time he was clearly our best performed KPF.

jackcass wrote:

mooretreloar wrote:

Pies4shaw wrote: The assertion that he has had 2.5 poor years is, of course, nonsense. He was performing well in 2015 (31 goals from 11 games) before he suffered injuries which led to him missing 5 of the last 11 games and kicking only 3 goals in the 6 games he did play. He's obviously leaving, so let's look to the future - but in doing so, there's no reason to try to re-write history. His Collingwood decline has been a very sharp one.

Your view that is nonsense and that it is rewriting history. Suggest that you listen to the commentators that have played the game that agree his declined started in mid 2014.
My view is formed by watching him closely over the past 3 seasons and his decline started in mid 2014, not based on the number of goals that he kicked.

Gees, so decline equates to career best goal kicking returns like the 1st half of 2015 then. Even the start of this year when he was dropped the 1st time he was clearly our best performed KPF.[/quote

Are you sure about that? What are you basing that opinion on? The ball moves two ways, both into, and out of, the forward line. You are probably only considering what happens when the ball comes in and not his non existent defensive assistance.

I have made my thoughts on Cloke clea, bith past and present, and won't regurgitate them again. All in all, no matter your view whether he is finished or not, he won't be playing at Collingwood in 2017. So, there is really no point in continuing with this thread.

5 from the wing on debut wrote:Are you sure about that? What are you basing that opinion on? The ball moves two ways, both into, and out of, the forward line. You are probably only considering what happens when the ball comes in and not his non existent defensive assistance.

I assume your talking about my best performed KPF comment. Yep, I'm comfortable on my opinion. Did a lot of comparisons around that time due to the Cloke frenzy on Nicks and BF and Cloke easily ahead of Moore, White, Gault and Cox who were the alternatives. Happy for you to make the case that we had another performing better.

I'm certainly not discounting the issues he had during that time or that he was coming off a really poor preseason, but even they don't diminish his performances relative to the other candidates.

EDIT: For the record, rounds 1-4:

Cloke: 38K, 9HB, 19M, 5T, 5 goals 4
White: 6K, 6HB, 3M, 2T, - goals - (only played round 4)
Moore: 19K, 14HB, 14M, 12T, 3 goals 2
Cox: didn't play till round 5
Gault: 6K, 4HB, 2M, 6T, - goals - (only played rounds 1 & 2)

jackcass wrote:

5 from the wing on debut wrote:Are you sure about that? What are you basing that opinion on? The ball moves two ways, both into, and out of, the forward line. You are probably only considering what happens when the ball comes in and not his non existent defensive assistance.

I assume your talking about my best performed KPF comment. Yep, I'm comfortable on my opinion. Did a lot of comparisons around that time due to the Cloke frenzy on Nicks and BF and Cloke easily ahead of Moore, White, Gault and Cox who were the alternatives. Happy for you to make the case that we had another performing better.

I'm certainly not discounting the issues he had during that time or that he was coming off a really poor preseason, but even they don't diminish his performances relative to the other candidates.

EDIT: For the record, rounds 1-4:

Cloke: 38K, 9HB, 19M, 5T, 5 goals 4
White: 6K, 6HB, 3M, 2T, - goals - (only played round 4)
Moore: 19K, 14HB, 14M, 12T, 3 goals 2
Cox: didn't play till round 5
Gault: 6K, 4HB, 2M, 6T, - goals - (only played rounds 1 & 2)

Sorry to put you to the trouble of sourcing those stats. But I was referring to the decline, not whether he was the best key forward. My opinion is not based upon an analysis of statistics. It is based upon the way I perceived that Cloke was actually playing the game. That is, he wasn't moving and playing in the manner that he used to.

The question of when a player started a decline is an entirely subjective one. The question whether he had a "poor" 2.5 years is capable of direct rejection based on the available statistics. As jackcass says, the start of 2015 saw Cloke in hot goal-kicking form. Neither of us has a "kick the Club" or "blame the coach" agenda. For my part, I'd just prefer that history not be rewritten.