Buyers Remorse

[Pies4shaw]

Best ruckman in the country and, unless we can stop them (no one else is going to), he’s about to get the first of his 5 Norm Smiths.

[qldmagpie67]

Best ruckman in the country and, unless we can stop them (no one else is going to), he’s about to get the first of his 5 Norm Smiths.

I’ll give you one thing you’ve got a vivid imagination
Ok let’s break it down to lure and simple undeniable stats.
Sydney have the best attacking and defensive stats for the season
They concede the least amount of goals from entries into there defensive 50 and score the 2nd highest entry when taking inside there attacking 50.
They rank 1st in points scored from defensive half (something ruckmen have nothing to do with)
Heeney Warner and Goulden have scored or assisted in 515 points they’ve scored this season.
Yet they rank 14th in scores from stoppages (that’s when ruckmen have the biggest influence) and 11th in scores from centre bounces (the other ares ruckmen have a influence)
They rank 2nd in points scored from turnovers (something ruckmen have nothing to do with)
So basically when you wrap it all up there scoring comes from pressure, tackles and turnovers and nothing to do with ruck work.
I don’t know how much clearer if can be that he’s a passenger in a team full of talent playing very well.
The kindest thing you can say about his performances this season is he isn’t playing worse than hickey was last season

[qldmagpie67]

Best ruckman in the country and, unless we can stop them (no one else is going to), he’s about to get the first of his 5 Norm Smiths.

Go watch Gawn’s performance on 1 leg yesterday

[Pies4shaw]

^ If only Gawn could break even with Grundy - or, at least, not get pantsed by him, he might not seem second-rate.

Just a gentle reminder - in their game against each other this season:

Grundy 23 disposals, 2 contested marks, 33 hit-outs, 6 tackles, 5 inside-50s, 9 clearances, 15 contested possessions, 4 1%ers.

Gawn 14 disposals, 0 contested marks, 37 hit-outs, 4 tackles, 0 inside-50s, 2 clearances, 9 contested possessions, 0 1%-ers.

[qldmagpie67]

@Pies4shaw Thank you right there you have highlighted why Gawn is the length of the Hume highway in front of Grundy as a ruckman.
Gawn 37 hit outs which only 2 of which he had to clean up himself
Grundy 33 hit outs which he had to clean up over 25% of
So here’s a lesson for you the job of a ruckman is to hit the ball to his midfield and let them clear the ball from the contest
Why ? Because mids are much better ball users than rucks
There job first and foremost is give the ball to the best players which are generally the mids around them
This has always been Grundy’s weakness
Take away his 9 clearances also takes away 9 of his contested possessions and 9 disposals
Gawn is currently sitting equal 3rd on betting for the Brownlow and inside rhe top 10 in the coaches votes
Gawn has played 9 more games to Grundy
Gawn has 107 Brownlow votes Grundy has 65
Gawn has 23 best on ground performances Grundy has 9
Gawn has been all Australian ruck 6 times (this year will make 7) Grundy has been twice
Sooner or later you’ll just have to admit Sydney’s winning ways is little to nothing to do with Grundy
Melbourne can’t win a flag without Gawn Sydney would still be a chance simple as that

[Pies4shaw]

^ You get Brownlow votes irrespective of which teams you play well against. Grundy has pantsed all-comers, so far. Gawn isn't a bad player - he just can't beat Grundy. He never has - and he probably never will.

He finally beat a Grundy-less Collingwood in 2023 - but only because Grundy was playing with him and pantsed the Pies in the ruck. Without Grundy in the Finals to carry the load for him (because Melbourne's coach wouldn't know what a ruckman looked like if one fell on him), Gawn was taken to the cleaners by Cox and Cameron. The loss of Grundy instantly transformed Melbourne's rucks from a winning combination to a complete liability.

Gawn did fluke a premiership in a 2021 run of Finals against teams that don't field competent ruckmen (Brisbane, Geelong and Footscray). But his Finals record is 5 wins and 5 losses - and all 5 of the wins have come against teams that simply don't play AFL-standard rucks (Hawthorn and Geelong - we all remember his opponent that match: the great Ryan Abbott, right? - were the other 2, in 2018). Of course, in 2018, he met his match in the Prelim, against Lycett and Vardy. He had 36 hitouts - but West Coast won the clearances easily - and Gawn otherwise barely touched the ball. You will, of course, recall how unfairly Grundy was critiicised for his game against the same opposition in the Grand Final - that day, Collingwood won the hitouts 57 (49 of those to Grundy, in one of the all-time great displays of Grand Final rucking) to 29 and thrashed West Coast in the clearances. Our problem, of course, was that Adams, Sier, Treloar and Phillips got more than half of Collingwood's clearances, while Sheed and Shuey dominated around the contest for West Coast. Grundy should have been a premiership player that day - he carried the Pies on his back: it was a very great shame that the Pies only had two talented midfielders in that side and - because there were no competent alternatives - the opposition closed both of them down, which meant that the Collingwood clearance ball finished up in the hands of a bunch of clowns incapable of damaging the opposition.

Bottom line - Gawn has never done it when it matters against quality ruckmen. Grundy always has - and continues to do so, which is why Gawn, again, couldn't touch him in 2024.

[Presti35]

Wouldn't mind Grundy filling in for us over the next few weeks tbh.

[qldmagpie67]

Let’s peel back to the beginning of when/how this happened.
When Grundy injured his knee on Anzac 2022 we where 3-3
We then went 13-3 for the remainder of the home and away season.
At seasons end during the review the coaching staff and football department realised (correctly) the teams overall performance had improved dramatically with the absence of Grundy.
During that time the head coach and Wright looked at our list and the cost of each player in the cap and came to the conclusion this list as constructed wouldn’t win a premiership carrying a million dollar a season ruckman playing the game style the club wanted to play under the new coach.
The coaches sat down with Grundy at seasons end and went over him the changes he needed to make in his game to suit the new style the club wanted to play. This was quite basically a simple request. Grundy didn’t like the proposed changes and made it clear at the time of his dislike of the changes being proposed.
This left the club with 2 choices. Either (a) change the game plan to suit 1 player or (b) move that player on.
The smart decision was to move him on (even allowing for the knowledge no club was going to pay his entire salary) which they did.
We took a lousy second round draft pick (basically the same we got for Phillips trade to the hawks) and swallowed $750k in salary to rid him from our books.
Why so little ? Well it’s simple there wasn’t suitors available. We had 1 club who took serious interest (one other club said they would take him but they wouldn’t eat more than $400k of his salary which wasn’t appealing at all) so we took the only real offer we had. Yes Grundy had to agree to it. But his choice was go to Melbourne or play VFL for the foreseeable future (barring injuries) at Collingwood.
He went to Melbourne with all the fanfare you can imagine with the trumpeting this signing. Little did they know what they got.
They got a player who refused to modify or learn, a player who was self centred and had little to no real ruck skills. This was confirmed when Melbournes once vaunted midfield who was clearly winning clearances when Gawn rucked to not being able to get there hands on the ball when Grundy rucked. He couldn’t go forward and be of any value either.
It took them about 5/6 weeks to figure out they had brought a lemon.
They tried everything in there power to get it to work but alas they couldn’t find a position to play him that didn’t hamper there ability to win.
So they did the only logical thing they sent him to the VFL.
Come seasons end they took a bath and off loaded him to Sydney here both the coach and lost manager have said publicly they don’t spend money on ruckmen. They don’t believe in the value of ruck.
They had hickey last season and the second half of season (2023) when they started using Heeney in the middle much more there entire season turned around.
This season with Heeney and there midfield demolishing sides weekly they’ve continued on the same dominate ways they had the previous season.
The ruck makes little to no difference to there ladder leading team.
They could have had hickey still playing ruck (if his body hadn’t completely broken down) and be sitting in the same spot with the same results

[Pies4shaw]

Because Melbourne do not know what a ruckman looks like, they've swapped ladder places with Sydney. Basically, the only thing that's changed for each team is that one used to have a great ruckman (although they didn't know what to do with him) and the other now does.

That said, Grundy is obvioulsy slipping - he didn't get a single hitout at the weekend.

[qldmagpie67]

Clearly the weekend was Grundy’s best and most useful game for the swans.
Interesting stat
Swans from centre bounce with Grundy as ruck -17 in clearances this season
With McLean as ruck at centre bounce +7
Funny same midfield wins the ball from clearance when McLean ruck snd can’t when Grundy rucks

[What'sinaname]

Grundy basically dragged the Swans from a 6 goal deficit to lead by 2 goals at 3/4 time

[Pies4shaw]

^ Absolute rubbish. They have dominated the hitouts and clearances because of McLean, again. He has had 6 hitouts, 8 disposals, 1 mark and 38 metres gained.

Don't know that they need Grundy to ruck. He's only had 35 hitouts, 25 disposals, a goal assist and 11 score involvements. It was a complete accident when he tapped the ball straight down Gulden's throat for the sealer - we all know he only hits it to the opposition. Only had the 21 contested plossessions, too.

[Pies4shaw]

Meanwhile, Gawn has torn Collingwood a new one on King's Birthday. Melbourne won the ruck 47 to 24 and, on the back of that, dominated the game, winning the contested possessions 127 to 105 and the match by 86 points....

... Oh wait. Pies won the centre clearances 14 to 6. And the game by 38 points.

[Pies4shaw]

Grundy only got 2 coaches' votes this week.

[What'sinaname]

Grundy only got 2 coaches' votes this week.

And only 1 coach gave him votes.