Postmatch...comments here thanks..What on earth was that.

[chalky]

To all those Presti knockers, back off. With just token pressure applied by us, richmond midfield did as they pleased. My Grandma would've got a kick in that forward setup. Our backline players rely heavily on midfield pressure/support. Last night - nil. Rocca IS vital. More than anything, what he brings to the side is balance and structure. NOBODY else can play CHF. This leaves Taz exposed because he has to stay close to the goals - this is not his game. He made All Aussie playing hard outside 50. Richmond showed no respect to Walker of course double teamed Taz.
MM please, the Walker love fest is OVER. Saw you yelling at Lokan at the break - hit him! loose tackling, poor disposals in crucial areas and times.
I've posted before, there is no plan B for when Rocca is out. Maybe it's time for the Davidson fan club to start screaming. Fraser/McKee smashed in the ruck duels again and at almost every stoppage. Richards has to get a game before Stunner (got nothing to lose). MM put his faith in the 2003 GF squad applying the "put'em back on the bike" philosophy. OK, now it's out of your system, get real with some players. Bring on the Doggs

[JLC]

my thoughts:

- poor disposal which meant way too many turnovers
- too many free opposition players
- didnt always support each other
- look for the free player!!
- didnt go hard at the ball, waited for the ball to come to them (leon davis in particular)

changes for next week:
mc kee, leon davis, walker, shaw(to get some confidence at willy) OUT
richards, rocca, king and nixon IN

special mention to shane woewodin who played an awesome game when on the ground. pity he couldnt carry out the whole game but looking good all the same.

hopefully next week will tell a different story.
luv jess

So you would keep Andrew Williams ?? Personally i think Leon is used as a scapegoat.

jlc

[Birdy]

So you would keep Andrew Williams ?? Personally i think Leon is used as a scapegoat.

jlc

I'm bewildered at why Williams is still in the side. The facts are he is slow, weak as pis, no skills, can't kick straight, doesn't put in any effort.....whats left for him to do? Must do some great work off the ball that you never see on camera. Should be sent to Willi next week if theres a spot for him there.

[BJ]

I usually don't post in the aftermath of a game, win lose or draw, namely because the emotion of the moment will normally lead to thoughtless comments that may come back at a later stage. But I feel that I need to at least say something here.
Back in 2002 we had an almost mirror-image pre-season, going winless, then faced Richmond in rd 1 which we were disposed of by 37 points. We failed again a week or two later against Carlton who from memory only won 3 or 4 games in total for the season.
Even one of our Nick posters declared then that he had enough of supporting the pies, the dissapointment was too much to bear. We bagged the shit out of the club, the players and the coach, looking for someone to blame.
Low and behold, by September's end, we had made an unlikely grand final, a game we should have won, but nevertheless we made it to the big one for the first time in 12 years, after many seasons in the widerness.

Last year was an improvement yet again, though we were looking fragile at 6-6 after 12 games, just outside the 8. The team rallied, we ended up premiership favourites, after everyone, including some of our own had written us off at the mid-season break.

Stick with the pies people. Forget analysing the performances of individuals down to the nth degree, that's the coaches job. It's our job as supporters to support the team. That's what makes success smell so sweet, knowing that you had faith, even when things weren't going as you had hoped.

[JLC]

To all those Presti knockers, back off. With just token pressure applied by us, richmond midfield did as they pleased. My Grandma would've got a kick in that forward setup. Our backline players rely heavily on midfield pressure/support. Last night - nil. Rocca IS vital. More than anything, what he brings to the side is balance and structure. NOBODY else can play CHF. This leaves Taz exposed because he has to stay close to the goals - this is not his game. He made All Aussie playing hard outside 50. Richmond showed no respect to Walker of course double teamed Taz.
MM please, the Walker love fest is OVER. Saw you yelling at Lokan at the break - hit him! loose tackling, poor disposals in crucial areas and times.
I've posted before, there is no plan B for when Rocca is out. Maybe it's time for the Davidson fan club to start screaming. Fraser/McKee smashed in the ruck duels again and at almost every stoppage. Richards has to get a game before Stunner (got nothing to lose). MM put his faith in the 2003 GF squad applying the "put'em back on the bike" philosophy. OK, now it's out of your system, get real with some players. Bring on the Doggs

Come on mate..im a presti fan too...but look at the facts... richo killed him... admit that he didnt play his best.. because when he is at his best, noone can get near the ball, let alone kick goals... the midfield can be blamed for some things, but not the fact that richo was always in front. and led presti to the ball.. but never fear, presti will be back to his best soon... bloody pre season interruptions...

Considering he came off a limited pre season Presti did ok considering how often the ball was coming down there. Richo presented himself well and his confidence was up. We are quick to bag Richo when he stuffs up but this game he played well.

Presti normally takes a few weeks to warm up and then he will be fine.

jlc

[Two_Pies]

Good call JLC. I thought he did a great job. Richo was getting the ball lace up often and Presti in double teaming him puched and chased and pushed into the pockets. But as you say with it coming down so much law of averages will see him grab a few. And now he is so massive - he can't run too far for fear of collapsing.

[Johnson#26]

So you would keep Andrew Williams ?? Personally i think Leon is used as a scapegoat.

I would keep Williams unless the time is right for Davidson. Once Davo's ready, Willo drops back to Willi. The only reason I'd keep him in the 1st 22 is that he can provide an option up forward and his height is hard to match up on. If he comes good, it will solve a few problems in attack.

As for Leon Davis, I don't think he's used as a scapegoat. He's too soft, gets only 5-8 touches a game and maybe 1 goal. For a 5th year player, he just has to do more. We all know what he can do (round 19 vs Dogs 2001) if only he'd produce it on a consitant basis.

[Two_Pies]

J#26 one thing I noticed about Leon was he was willing on Friday night to be tackled and ride it out instead of tapping the ball hoping to pick up frees. He's had a rough trot personally in the recent past and was dropped back to Willi as a result - gut feeling is he will lift considerably this year. We will get to see the victory finger celebration more and more each week. This year is make or break and he knows it. I for one think he is trying and time will tell.

Agree with you on Davidson. If the kid is ready (and he supposedly was before the reco) bring him on. Imagine the match up problems with Rocca, Taz and Davo running all over the joint...!

[Johnson#26]

You are right Two_Pies Neon Leon did put his body on the line at times on Friday night but to me, he is still too soft. Should we play him/Shaw against Brisbane in round 3?? Don't forget the mental scarring.

[JLC]

If anything Williams just gets in the way up forward.

The only players i like seeing up forward are Fraser, Rocca, Davis, Didak and Tarrant and of course Bucks. Williams, McKee and Walker should not be anywhere near the goals at present.

If we do not have a player at Williamstown in better form than Williams then we are in more trouble than i thought.

jlc

[Johnson#26]

If we do not have a player at Williamstown in better form than Williams then we are in more trouble than i thought.

I'm not sure what form Davidson's in but surely he's a chance. BTW - Billy Morrison kicked 5 goals for the Williamstown reserves.

[Two_Pies]

Agree he gets caught to easily in the close in and under stuff. He will never be a Licuria or Burnsy. Much as I hate to say he is more like a Matera (either one) pesky little goal sneak playing off the packs.

Shaw however (by the way have met him a few times - nice guy) needs a rest to get whatever out of his sytem. Turnovers and indecisiveness are bad attributes to carry onto the field. Really looking forward to seeing the washup in the selections this Thursday....

[CQ]

changes for next week:
mc kee, leon davis, walker, shaw(to get some confidence at willy) OUT
richards, rocca, king and nixon IN

have to disagree on king, looked slow and ineffective against west coast, has shown little to deserve a game in the seniors.



then again, half the team is in that boat

[Big T]

Agree with BJ - no need to panic, however when we lost in 2002 by 37 points in round 1, from memory it was a high scoring game and we could see the improvement.

To me, the single biggest frustration is when the coaching staff continually say "we have started 4 weeks behind the rest of the competition" all pre-season which is a complete load of crap. Brisbane never bring that old chestnut out, either do the other 2 prelim final sides, or the semi finalists for that matter. Plus the 18 players who didn't play in the finals from 2003 should be cherry-ripe, fit and strong and some should be playing round 1.

The Pies were scrappy because they are unfit and second to the contest. When you are chasing all night you cannot make smart decisions because you are so tired physically, mentally you don't have a chance. I think there is no excuse for not being as fit as any other side in the competition, I realise it is a long season and we need to be careful with workloads, however playing at an elite level with that apparent difference in leg speed and stamina is a sign that we need to look at being smarter in the pre-season. I am sure we will improve remarkedly as we have in recent years over the next six weeks.

By the way, I thought Wakelin was our only defender who put himself on the line and is so underrated in our team, 7/10 game for him.

Most people on this forum also haven't picked McGough for next week, however he would be my first inclusion - at least he knows how to get the ball. These guys that aren't as fit then need to rely on positioning and reading the play and McGough will always do that. Also I was encouraged by J. Cloke, remember he is under the pump and down on confidence after MMs comments and a media hammering but he was presenting and does need to take over that Molloy role, can't see anyone else to do it.

I thought also preseason that Richmond were on a winner getting those 2 boys from the Lions, was disappointed we didn't have a crack at them. Don't be surpised if Luke Weller also comes into teh Tigers side and adds some presence, The lions don't draft duds too often. I felt like I was watching another Jonathon Brown with that other ex Lion taking 8 grans and setting up play, he is a big boy too and will shit me to tears if he has a good season.

Richards, McGough, C.Cloke in for McKee, Williams and Shaw.[/quote]

[Johnson#26]

have to disagree on king, looked slow and ineffective against west coast, has shown little to deserve a game in the seniors.

Agrre. King isn't very quick and we need to inject so pace into the line up. King isn't the answer at this stage.