Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board

piffdog wrote:I am totally with you on this “walk him to the draft” nonsense. It rarely happens and when it does leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth.

So are you suggesting Henry out, #25 in and then #25 out Mitchell in? I could probably stomach that. If you couldn’t get Mitchell would we rather keep Henry? Would he stay (we have put a one year deal to him haven’t we)? Interesting that Papley was soo desperate to get to Carlton but yet ended up staying and will now likely be a Swan for life. It can happen.

Maybe you get more for Henry next year if he can find a spot and continue to grow.

I think people are underselling pick 25 as a commodity in all this. Firstly, I’m not saying we don’t hold out for more but you don’t cut your nose off, despite your face. People look at the draft and say ( usually correctly ) that pick 25 is a lottery. Of course it is, so you take that pick and turn it into something that’s more reliable. The rules for picks are flexible and we’re now at the point where we can bundle picks up and get closer to the pointy end or we trade it out for a future and save for a rainy day. And if all that’s not enough, we can also scour clubs lists looking for a player to fill a need in the knowledge that we have the cap relief from Henry moving on and pick 25 as currency.
Let’s not forget, Lipinski just finished sixth in the B and F and he was for pick 43. I’m not sure why anyone would want to walk away from introducing another player like that on our list but that’s the likely scenario if you don’t have pick 25 to do a trade with in the first place.
To me, it makes sense to hold out until the end of the second last day and then if they’re not budging from 25, you take the pick and turn it into a player with a day to go OR you still have another couple weeks ( and on the night ) to turn 25 into something more suitable for the clubs draft plans.

Normally I’d agree

However **** the cats

They clearly don’t value him or would not be so nonchalant about getting a deal done, someone should ram home to Ollie this point. Dies he want to play seniors?

And again **** the cheating cats

Pick 25 for Mitchell?

According to the Age, we would not be averse to letting him slide to the draft. Do it Pies! North or Collingwood. You chose Jack.

Move to Williamstown. It’s on the way to Geelong and you can stay at Collingwood.

What are the chances of doing a pick swap deal with North at the last few
Minutes of trade week if it becomes apparent that Henry will go to the PSD or re-sign with us??

Why cant we do a slide of picks elsewhere with Geelong plus the pick 25.
A slide of picks elsewhere in 2022 or 2023 will help us get Frampton/Fiorini/Mitchell in, I would be happy with pick 25 plus swap of picks in our slight favour, would be very fair.

Not sure what other picks Geelong have but surely there is a second rounder we could swap with one of our third rounders to get either or Fiorini and Mitchell. Frampton should be a third rounder easy.

Is Poulter still tradeable ?

magpieazza wrote:Why cant we do a slide of picks elsewhere with Geelong plus the pick 25.
A slide of picks elsewhere in 2022 or 2023 will help us get Frampton/Fiorini/Mitchell in, I would be happy with pick 25 plus swap of picks in our slight favour, would be very fair.

Not sure what other picks Geelong have but surely there is a second rounder we could swap with one of our third rounders to get either or Fiorini and Mitchell. Frampton should be a third rounder easy.

I was thinking similar. Maybe if pick # 33 from Port was to go to Geelong for Ratagalea, then we could possibly also swap the Cats newly acquired #33 for our #40 or later. It sounds ok in theory ( to me anyway ) but it seems Port have bigger fish to fry with J H F and Rioli, so the Rat trade may not even occur. The Rat trade will certainly remain an afterthought until those bigger deals are done.
That would look something like out - Henry and #40 ( or later pick ) and coming in # 25 and # 33.
The Cats won’t be chopping up pick #7, so we need to move on from that.
According to current rules, they couldn’t even trade out their future first IF they give up their future second rounder to Suns for Bowes and #7 ( although the AFL may consider exemptions, especially since so many clubs find themselves hamstrung by that current rule in this trade period )
In short, I don’t see how we improve on #25 unless the cats either trade out a player or they throw in their future third as a token crumb.

Pies2016 wrote:

magpieazza wrote:Why cant we do a slide of picks elsewhere with Geelong plus the pick 25.
A slide of picks elsewhere in 2022 or 2023 will help us get Frampton/Fiorini/Mitchell in, I would be happy with pick 25 plus swap of picks in our slight favour, would be very fair.

Not sure what other picks Geelong have but surely there is a second rounder we could swap with one of our third rounders to get either or Fiorini and Mitchell. Frampton should be a third rounder easy.

I was thinking similar. Maybe if pick # 33 from Port was to go to Geelong for Ratagalea, then we could possibly also swap the Cats newly acquired #33 for our #40 or later. It sounds ok in theory ( to me anyway ) but it seems Port have bigger fish to fry with J H F and Rioli, so the Rat trade may not even occur. The Rat trade will certainly remain an afterthought until those bigger deals are done.
That would look something like out - Henry and #40 ( or later pick ) and coming in # 25 and # 33.
The Cats won’t be chopping up pick #7, so we need to move on from that.
According to current rules, they couldn’t even trade out their future first IF they give up their future second rounder to Suns for Bowes and #7 ( although the AFL may consider exemptions, especially since so many clubs find themselves hamstrung by that current rule in this trade period )
In short, I don’t see how we improve on #25 unless the cats either trade out a player or they throw in their future third as a token crumb.

So trade away a player who we drafted at #17 and has shown that he will be a very good player for some speculative picks in #25 and #33?

No thanks.

Henry is worth a first round pick and anything less imho is ridiculous to even consider.
He is a player who is on course to kick 400+ goals (based on a 10 year career).
Hawkins played 19 games in his first two years and kicked 25 goals. Not saying that Henry will be as good but he definitely has all the attributes to get near someone like Gunstan.
Would the Cats have accepted pick 25 for Hawkins at the end of 2008?….No chance. They knew that he would blossom into a gun player. No different to Henry. He has too much upside (and has shown glimpses of what he is capable of) for a bunch of second rounders.
I see him as our second best young talent behind Nick Daicos.
I don’t want him to leave but if he does, #1-17 is the price.

This one might go down to the wire.
At some point the Pies will be nervous about letting him drop into the draft.
At some point the Cats will be nervous about him dropping into the draft.
At some point the Henry will doubt his decision making.
Like a classic Western, cue the music increasing in tempo and force.
I think we can just sit and be patient, and the young man can play a year at Ocean Grove if he so chooses.

burnsy17 wrote:Why is everyone so sure someone other than Geelong would pick him up in the PSD?

Why would a club bother drafting him knowing he doesn’t want to play for them and would probably walk 1 year later?

Walking him to the PSD is the worst scenario for us and he would still end up at Geelong!

Like how the Saints thought Luke Ball can go to the draft. That's the ultimate kick in their guts. Collingwood still get him, and he then wins a flag against them the very next season. Saints rejected the pick he was taken at and also a player who I believe was Wellingham? Who also played in that premiership.

Henry isnt Dunkley. Dunkley will go pick 1 if the Dogs let him walk. And if for some insane reason North, WCE and GWS passed, there is no way that Essendon wont be taking him. Hard to tell who'd pass on Henry, but I feel like Essendon would not pass on him unless Dunkley was still available. The other thing is that not every club will have a PSD pick, so who knows.

If i knew Geelong were not going to get him, then I'd have no issues walking him to the PSD, but the risk that the Cats still get him would be a slap in the face to us. And of course a club like Essendon getting him.

At this point, unless we get a fair trade (which pick 25 is not), I'd like to think we can reject Geelongs low offer and Henry signs a 2 year extension for Collingwood.

slangman wrote:

Pies2016 wrote:

magpieazza wrote:Why cant we do a slide of picks elsewhere with Geelong plus the pick 25.
A slide of picks elsewhere in 2022 or 2023 will help us get Frampton/Fiorini/Mitchell in, I would be happy with pick 25 plus swap of picks in our slight favour, would be very fair.

Not sure what other picks Geelong have but surely there is a second rounder we could swap with one of our third rounders to get either or Fiorini and Mitchell. Frampton should be a third rounder easy.

I was thinking similar. Maybe if pick # 33 from Port was to go to Geelong for Ratagalea, then we could possibly also swap the Cats newly acquired #33 for our #40 or later. It sounds ok in theory ( to me anyway ) but it seems Port have bigger fish to fry with J H F and Rioli, so the Rat trade may not even occur. The Rat trade will certainly remain an afterthought until those bigger deals are done.
That would look something like out - Henry and #40 ( or later pick ) and coming in # 25 and # 33.
The Cats won’t be chopping up pick #7, so we need to move on from that.
According to current rules, they couldn’t even trade out their future first IF they give up their future second rounder to Suns for Bowes and #7 ( although the AFL may consider exemptions, especially since so many clubs find themselves hamstrung by that current rule in this trade period )
In short, I don’t see how we improve on #25 unless the cats either trade out a player or they throw in their future third as a token crumb.

So trade away a player who we drafted at #17 and has shown that he will be a very good player for some speculative picks in #25 and #33?

No thanks.

Henry is worth a first round pick and anything less imho is ridiculous to even consider.
He is a player who is on course to kick 400+ goals (based on a 10 year career).
Hawkins played 19 games in his first two years and kicked 25 goals. Not saying that Henry will be as good but he definitely has all the attributes to get near someone like Gunstan.
Would the Cats have accepted pick 25 for Hawkins at the end of 2008?….No chance. They knew that he would blossom into a gun player. No different to Henry. He has too much upside (and has shown glimpses of what he is capable of) for a bunch of second rounders.
I see him as our second best young talent behind Nick Daicos.
I don’t want him to leave but if he does, #1-17 is the price.

By all means, I would like #1 but what we want and what we will ultimately get are very different ( unless he stays of course )
Just to add, pick 25 and 33 are worth 1300 points or the equivalent of # 11.
I realise you need a willing partner to turn those picks into one better pick but that’s the maths. Just as #25 has the simple potential to turn into Tom Mitchell for those who do want him at the club and see him as a solution to our midfield concerns.
You won’t get “ 400 goals “ out of any player who doesn’t want to be there and I think that’s lost on a lot of posters who want to keep him at all costs. You can bet both his family and his brother will still be in Geelong in a couple years time, so why run the likely risk of going through it all again.

Pies2016 wrote:

slangman wrote:

Pies2016 wrote: I was thinking similar. Maybe if pick # 33 from Port was to go to Geelong for Ratagalea, then we could possibly also swap the Cats newly acquired #33 for our #40 or later. It sounds ok in theory ( to me anyway ) but it seems Port have bigger fish to fry with J H F and Rioli, so the Rat trade may not even occur. The Rat trade will certainly remain an afterthought until those bigger deals are done.
That would look something like out - Henry and #40 ( or later pick ) and coming in # 25 and # 33.
The Cats won’t be chopping up pick #7, so we need to move on from that.
According to current rules, they couldn’t even trade out their future first IF they give up their future second rounder to Suns for Bowes and #7 ( although the AFL may consider exemptions, especially since so many clubs find themselves hamstrung by that current rule in this trade period )
In short, I don’t see how we improve on #25 unless the cats either trade out a player or they throw in their future third as a token crumb.

So trade away a player who we drafted at #17 and has shown that he will be a very good player for some speculative picks in #25 and #33?

No thanks.

Henry is worth a first round pick and anything less imho is ridiculous to even consider.
He is a player who is on course to kick 400+ goals (based on a 10 year career).
Hawkins played 19 games in his first two years and kicked 25 goals. Not saying that Henry will be as good but he definitely has all the attributes to get near someone like Gunstan.
Would the Cats have accepted pick 25 for Hawkins at the end of 2008?….No chance. They knew that he would blossom into a gun player. No different to Henry. He has too much upside (and has shown glimpses of what he is capable of) for a bunch of second rounders.
I see him as our second best young talent behind Nick Daicos.
I don’t want him to leave but if he does, #1-17 is the price.

By all means, I would like #1 but what we want and what we will ultimately get are very different ( unless he stays of course )
Just to add, pick 25 and 33 are worth 1300 points or the equivalent of # 11.
I realise you need a willing partner to turn those picks into one better pick but that’s the maths. Just as #25 has the simple potential to turn into Tom Mitchell for those who do want him at the club and see him as a solution to our midfield concerns.
You won’t get “ 400 goals “ out of any player who doesn’t want to be there and I think that’s lost on a lot of posters who want to keep him at all costs. You can bet both his family and his brother will still be in Geelong in a couple years time, so why run the likely risk of going through it all again.

Tom Papley didn’t get his wish to be traded to Carlton a few years back and has since played well and just recently has extended his contract.
Josh Dunkley won the B&F after his messy request to be traded two years ago.
Too many get caught up in the point’s system which I think is really beneficial if you require them for FS or academy players.
We don’t require points for any players. We need quality players and accepting anything less than a first round pick will increase the gap between us and the cats.

Pies2016 wrote:

slangman wrote:

Pies2016 wrote: I was thinking similar. Maybe if pick # 33 from Port was to go to Geelong for Ratagalea, then we could possibly also swap the Cats newly acquired #33 for our #40 or later. It sounds ok in theory ( to me anyway ) but it seems Port have bigger fish to fry with J H F and Rioli, so the Rat trade may not even occur. The Rat trade will certainly remain an afterthought until those bigger deals are done.
That would look something like out - Henry and #40 ( or later pick ) and coming in # 25 and # 33.
The Cats won’t be chopping up pick #7, so we need to move on from that.
According to current rules, they couldn’t even trade out their future first IF they give up their future second rounder to Suns for Bowes and #7 ( although the AFL may consider exemptions, especially since so many clubs find themselves hamstrung by that current rule in this trade period )
In short, I don’t see how we improve on #25 unless the cats either trade out a player or they throw in their future third as a token crumb.

So trade away a player who we drafted at #17 and has shown that he will be a very good player for some speculative picks in #25 and #33?

No thanks.

Henry is worth a first round pick and anything less imho is ridiculous to even consider.
He is a player who is on course to kick 400+ goals (based on a 10 year career).
Hawkins played 19 games in his first two years and kicked 25 goals. Not saying that Henry will be as good but he definitely has all the attributes to get near someone like Gunstan.
Would the Cats have accepted pick 25 for Hawkins at the end of 2008?….No chance. They knew that he would blossom into a gun player. No different to Henry. He has too much upside (and has shown glimpses of what he is capable of) for a bunch of second rounders.
I see him as our second best young talent behind Nick Daicos.
I don’t want him to leave but if he does, #1-17 is the price.

By all means, I would like #1 but what we want and what we will ultimately get are very different ( unless he stays of course )
Just to add, pick 25 and 33 are worth 1300 points or the equivalent of # 11.
I realise you need a willing partner to turn those picks into one better pick but that’s the maths. Just as #25 has the simple potential to turn into Tom Mitchell for those who do want him at the club and see him as a solution to our midfield concerns.
You won’t get “ 400 goals “ out of any player who doesn’t want to be there and I think that’s lost on a lot of posters who want to keep him at all costs. You can bet both his family and his brother will still be in Geelong in a couple years time, so why run the likely risk of going through it all again.

Tom Papley didn’t get his wish to be traded to Carlton a few years back and has since played well and just recently has extended his contract.
Josh Dunkley won the B&F after his messy request to be traded two years ago.
Too many get caught up in the point’s system which I think is really beneficial if you require them for FS or academy players.
We don’t require points for any players. We need quality players and accepting anything less than a first round pick will increase the gap between us and the cats.

The Age is saying the Pies offered to trade Henry, picks 16 and 41 to the Cats for picks 7 and 25

The difference in points between the draft picks is around pick 20

Of course the Cats rejected the offer

It seems a smart offer by the Pies, it highlights the Cats don't rate Henry that highly and are trying to get him on the cheap

Presti35 wrote:

burnsy17 wrote:Why is everyone so sure someone other than Geelong would pick him up in the PSD?

Why would a club bother drafting him knowing he doesn’t want to play for them and would probably walk 1 year later?

Walking him to the PSD is the worst scenario for us and he would still end up at Geelong!

Like how the Saints thought Luke Ball can go to the draft. That's the ultimate kick in their guts. Collingwood still get him, and he then wins a flag against them the very next season. Saints rejected the pick he was taken at and also a player who I believe was Wellingham? Who also played in that premiership.

Henry isnt Dunkley. Dunkley will go pick 1 if the Dogs let him walk. And if for some insane reason North, WCE and GWS passed, there is no way that Essendon wont be taking him. Hard to tell who'd pass on Henry, but I feel like Essendon would not pass on him unless Dunkley was still available. The other thing is that not every club will have a PSD pick, so who knows.

If i knew Geelong were not going to get him, then I'd have no issues walking him to the PSD, but the risk that the Cats still get him would be a slap in the face to us. And of course a club like Essendon getting him.

At this point, unless we get a fair trade (which pick 25 is not), I'd like to think we can reject Geelongs low offer and Henry signs a 2 year extension for Collingwood.

Well we pick before Geelong so yes we can guarantee he doesn't get to Geelong!