The Hydra ~ Caro rears her head again

[Collingwood Crackerjack]

Yet similar remarks about Wilson's appearance are deemed sexist and misogynist.

Again, not sure what this is in reference to.

My point relates to public officials in high standing making jokes (however seemingly harmless) at a time of a DV crisis in Australia that we, as a Nation, are trying to address, by changing the culture in which violence against women, even by word, even a a joke, will not be tolerated.

Although given the disgraceful call you made the other day about the gay hate massacre in Orlando, I have no doubt I am wasting my breath.....but perhaps you better than anyone can now see how hateful words can offend, given the reaction you got.

Now, I am not for a second equating Ed's relatively innocuous comment with the hateful crap you posted, but you can see how its a slippery slope, or a matter of degrees on a spectrum

If you think the comment I made about Orlando was in any way hateful or supportive of the shooting in Orlando, then I'm afraid I consider you an unmitigated fool and will disregard your opinion.

DV is no doubt an issue. Is it a crisis at present or is it just at the same (unacceptable ) levels but getting more publicity? I'm not sure, but I think those linking the comments from someone who is clearly a campaigner against DV to supporting DV because of the gender of the crap journalist he made the remarks about are drawing a seriously long bow.

I stand by the comments I make on here, if you're not man enough to do the same, well what can I say?

Never said Ed supported DV, never even insinuated it, merely making the point that his comments are unacceptable in the light of the context of the current climate

[scoobydoo]

^ the thing is though, we don't know what impact upsetting someone might have. It might seem like nothing, but look at that poor school kid who basically publicly pleaded for help from being bullied.

Is it right to express your feelings if they can hurt someone?

C.Wilson does it every week with her "opinion " pieces.

She is a disgrace calling Dwane Russell's comments "ok" but not Eddies

Funny thing about all this is that Robbo hates her more, but sticks up for
her against Eddie or Collingwood. Both are w@&kers

[Jezza]

This has been blown out of proportion to the extreme and is indicative of the precious attitudes that have developed in this country. No one has the right NOT to be offended!

The comments by McGuire and co were somewhat distasteful depending on how someone interpreted them but everyone just loves manufacturing faux outrage these days.

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

The "holding her under" stuff was certainly the sort of thing a group of bullies would joke about, and that alone made the exchange cringeworthy and inappropriate (and worthy of sanction if it had happened at any workplace), but I agree that the reaction in the media would be very different if they were discussing a male journalist.

The trouble with some of this "violence against women" rhetoric is that it takes us back to the old days when women were seen as the weaker sex who needed to be protected, whereas a man being belted was just one of those things ("toughen up, princess", etc.).

The issue is not and never should be that violence against women is something worse than or fundamentally separate to violence against men. It's about a specific area, domestic violence, where women are much more likely to be victims. This exchange had little if anything to do with that issue.

There is a separate problem here, and one that Wilson seemed to have more issue with: McGuire's reference to her as a "black widow". The fact that he chose such an epithet shows, again, that a lot of the antipathy towards Wilson is at least partially about her gender. It's not a hanging offence, just worth noting, apologising for and moving on.

Anyone for vanilla ice cream?

I hardly see how sexual equality equates to 'the right for women to have the shit kicked out of 'em, same as men'....a weak, placating argument if ever I heard one, and in many ways, far more offensive that most of the ignorant crap posted on this thread.

If 2 blokes a week on average were dying from 'king-hits', all pubs would be shut down until the epidemic was addressed.

Seriously do you know what a joke is, or do you take everything literaturely?

Have you ever been to the comedy festival? Do you know the meaning of satire?

Are you so wrapped up with the cause of DV that you overturn every stone in our society looking for DV?

[Collingwood Crackerjack]

^ the thing is though, we don't know what impact upsetting someone might have. It might seem like nothing, but look at that poor school kid who basically publicly pleaded for help from being bullied.

Is it right to express your feelings if they can hurt someone?

But it took a week for anyone to realize that what was said was upsetting.

Doesn't that tell you something.

does that matter? Do you have to be upset immediately, else it's irrelevant?

I think 99% of what's happening here is bullshit and faux outrage, but, underlying all of this was a pathetic effort by the guys involved. The bad thing for Eddie is that this is no longer an isolated case of foot in mouth.

If he can't control what he says, then he should stay out of the media, or else, become a shock jock. But he has to stop flip-flopping between humanitarian and arsehole.

Pretty much, Eds comments were unseemly, given the current climate...the response on this thread has been frankly shocking. To be honest, I was very surprised it went to more than 1 page...Ed says something pretty silly and unseemly, won't be the first time, hopefully will be the last time.

What does shock me is the preceding 12 pages of crap in this thread...evidently I'm pretty much the only one who feels this way though, so its probably just me being a dick evidently

[HAL]

The "holding her under" stuff was certainly the sort of thing a group of bullies would joke about, and that alone made the exchange cringeworthy and inappropriate (and worthy of sanction if it had happened at any workplace), but I agree that the reaction in the media would be very different if they were discussing a male journalist.

The trouble with some of this "violence against women" rhetoric is that it takes us back to the old days when women were seen as the weaker sex who needed to be protected, whereas a man being belted was just one of those things ("toughen up, princess", etc.).

The issue is not and never should be that violence against women is something worse than or fundamentally separate to violence against men. It's about a specific area, domestic violence, where women are much more likely to be victims. This exchange had little if anything to do with that issue.

There is a separate problem here, and one that Wilson seemed to have more issue with: McGuire's reference to her as a "black widow". The fact that he chose such an epithet shows, again, that a lot of the antipathy towards Wilson is at least partially about her gender. It's not a hanging offence, just worth noting, apologising for and moving on.

Anyone for vanilla ice cream?

I hardly see how sexual equality equates to 'the right for women to have the shit kicked out of 'em, same as men'....a weak, placating argument if ever I heard one, and in many ways, far more offensive that most of the ignorant crap posted on this thread.

If 2 blokes a week on average were dying from 'king-hits', all pubs would be shut down until the epidemic was addressed.

Seriously do you know what a joke is, or do you take everything literaturely?

Have you ever been to the comedy festival? Do you know the meaning of satire?

Are you so wrapped up with the cause of DV that you overturn every stone in our society looking for DV?

I don't think I have been there. Where is the comedy festival .

[stui magpie]

I stand by the comments I make on here, if you're not man enough to do the same, well what can I say?

Never said Ed supported DV, never even insinuated it, merely making the point that his comments are unacceptable in the light of the context of the current climate

I stand by the comments I make, I explained the meaning of that post at the time and I sought feedback from someone who's opinion I trust on the reaction to it.

[jackcass]

Fair enough; the email from the Club seems to suggest i'm not Robinson Crusoe with my POV.

I'm no Caro fan, lets make that clear, don't like her work or her apparent spitefulness against those who cross her.

Do I think there was much in Eddies comments? No, not really, didn't think there was much in the 'King Kong' comments other than a a bad joke made on the spot either, but that is not the point.

We are trying to address an National culture issue that runs back to convict times, and I expect better from Eddie, due to the fact he holds one of the most important positions in the Country.

If bill or malcolm made similar jokes, their careers would be over, ditto the GG

I think you're reading too much into a media release by the club. It would be remiss not to at least offer a fluff piece to distance itself from any comment that might be considered sexist.

As to the pollies, yes, they are just great examples... who'll ever forget Downer's domestic violence launch gaff, "the things that batter"

[Collingwood Crackerjack]

This has been blown out of proportion to the extreme and is indicative of the precious attitudes that have developed in this country. No one has the right NOT to be offended!

The comments by McGuire and co were somewhat distasteful depending on how someone interpreted them but everyone just loves manufacturing faux outrage these days.

Jezza, the 'faux outrage' in this thread has been in regards to the fact that it might even have the possibility of being distasteful, which is what I'm outraged about...if that makes sense

[Collingwood Crackerjack]

The "holding her under" stuff was certainly the sort of thing a group of bullies would joke about, and that alone made the exchange cringeworthy and inappropriate (and worthy of sanction if it had happened at any workplace), but I agree that the reaction in the media would be very different if they were discussing a male journalist.

The trouble with some of this "violence against women" rhetoric is that it takes us back to the old days when women were seen as the weaker sex who needed to be protected, whereas a man being belted was just one of those things ("toughen up, princess", etc.).

The issue is not and never should be that violence against women is something worse than or fundamentally separate to violence against men. It's about a specific area, domestic violence, where women are much more likely to be victims. This exchange had little if anything to do with that issue.

There is a separate problem here, and one that Wilson seemed to have more issue with: McGuire's reference to her as a "black widow". The fact that he chose such an epithet shows, again, that a lot of the antipathy towards Wilson is at least partially about her gender. It's not a hanging offence, just worth noting, apologising for and moving on.

Anyone for vanilla ice cream?

I hardly see how sexual equality equates to 'the right for women to have the shit kicked out of 'em, same as men'....a weak, placating argument if ever I heard one, and in many ways, far more offensive that most of the ignorant crap posted on this thread.

If 2 blokes a week on average were dying from 'king-hits', all pubs would be shut down until the epidemic was addressed.

Seriously do you know what a joke is, or do you take everything literaturely?

Have you ever been to the comedy festival? Do you know the meaning of satire?

Are you so wrapped up with the cause of DV that you overturn every stone in our society looking for DV?

FFS sake man, read the thread and tell me that some of the crap on here isn't outrageous.

Let me be clear, I found Eddies, or more to the points Frawley's, comments, unseemly in the current climate.

What I find disgraceful is the reaction (on this thread) to the fact he got called on that unseemliness....did you see me posting calling for Eddies head on the 1st page?

BTW, you show me a single piece of satire or good humour on this thread and I'll eat my keyboard, what a BS call. Comedy festival? WTF?

[perthmagpie]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/eddie-mcguire-in-hot-water-over-caroline-wilson-ice-pool-threat-20160619-gpmp1x.html
There a such a loose amount of attitude for violence against Women...
Zero tolerance
He has to either do a course publicly or go...
Otherwise in my eyes he is a leader of our club the condones violence against Women...
If anyone can highlight a similar case in the media against another journo then step forward

Really? Are you kidding me. Violence against women is in the media is everywhere. It is so everywhere a woman can make allegations against a man anytime they want with no proof and destroy their lives and take their child away for years or forever. It is happening all the time thanks to Gillard'a crazy anti-violence laws. The pendulum has swung so far towards the feminists that fathers are second class people now. There are no consequences for false allegations ever. Why do we have 20,000 IVOs a year in Victoria now. The whole thing has become an industry that is ruining this country.

I think the whole Caro joke was not very funny but come on, resign? For goodness sake are we all a bunch of nannies who compare this stuff to real physical violence? The whole thing is absurd.

[Collingwood Crackerjack]

Fair enough; the email from the Club seems to suggest i'm not Robinson Crusoe with my POV.

I'm no Caro fan, lets make that clear, don't like her work or her apparent spitefulness against those who cross her.

Do I think there was much in Eddies comments? No, not really, didn't think there was much in the 'King Kong' comments other than a a bad joke made on the spot either, but that is not the point.

We are trying to address an National culture issue that runs back to convict times, and I expect better from Eddie, due to the fact he holds one of the most important positions in the Country.

If bill or malcolm made similar jokes, their careers would be over, ditto the GG

I think you're reading too much into a media release by the club. It would be remiss not to at least offer a fluff piece to distance itself from any comment that might be considered sexist.

As to the pollies, yes, they are just great examples... who'll ever forget Downer's domestic violence launch gaff, "the things that batter"

Downer was a prick, is a prick, will forever be a prick...got eff all to do with the matter at hand

[think positive]

TP, I am truly sorry you (and your mum)had to put up with that, totally unacceptable.

What I am suggesting is that a big part of DV is the culture in which it is allowed to flourish.

Now, if we, as a Nation, did not have an issue with DV, if on average 2 women a week were not being beaten to death, than the Eddie comment (and I might add that Frawley's were far, far worse than Eddies) may have grounds to be seen as a bit of a joke.

We do not live in that Nation; in fact, as a Nation, we have a disgraceful DV record, a bloody disgraceful record.

Is in in that context that the President of the biggest and best Club in the land made the comment.

In short, context is everything, and leaders of the Nation, of which Ed is, have a particular responsibility to lead the way in changing the culture.

FFS, someone said that the Honeymooners 'Straight to the moon...' joke was just a bit of fun, even given the incredible numbers of women in the 50's who passed away 'after falling down the stars officer, it was a tragic accident'.

Now, it would seem that most of here don't see a link. I won't be shamed or bullied (not saying that you are shaming or bullying me, but Leave it is coping a bake from others) in my belief that there is a link, that the fight against DV starts with attitudes.

The straw man argument about 'What if he said it about Slobbo' holds no water for me, as we don't have a violence epidemic against fat drunk football journalists

Fair enough I'll agree to disagree

Fair enough; the email from the Club seems to suggest i'm not Robinson Crusoe with my POV.

I'm no Caro fan, lets make that clear, don't like her work or her apparent spitefulness against those who cross her.

Do I think there was much in Eddies comments? No, not really, didn't think there was much in the 'King Kong' comments other than a a bad joke made on the spot either, but that is not the point.

We are trying to address an National culture issue that runs back to convict times, and I expect better from Eddie, due to the fact he holds one of the most important positions in the Country.

If bill or malcolm made similar jokes, their careers would be over, ditto the GG

And yet a far worse comment was made against Julia Gillard, and no one was sacked, go figure

[stui magpie]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/eddie-mcguire-in-hot-water-over-caroline-wilson-ice-pool-threat-20160619-gpmp1x.html
There a such a loose amount of attitude for violence against Women...
Zero tolerance
He has to either do a course publicly or go...
Otherwise in my eyes he is a leader of our club the condones violence against Women...
If anyone can highlight a similar case in the media against another journo then step forward

Really? Are you kidding me. Violence against women is in the media is everywhere. It is so everywhere a woman can make allegations against a man anytime they want with no proof and destroy their lives and take their child away for years or forever. It is happening all the time thanks to Gillard'a crazy anti-violence laws. The pendulum has swung so far towards the feminists that fathers are second class people now. There are no consequences for false allegations ever. Why do we have 20,000 IVOs a year in Victoria now. The whole thing has become an industry that is ruining this country.

Look, if that is the case it's an over correction which will self regulate. I don't have a lot of time for the family court system, but If you encourage more woman to report and do something about violence (which is a good thing) you have to accept that with the increased reporting comes a larger number of bogus reports. It comes with the deal.

[Dave The Man]