I think it's time to look at our season overall and assess the plus points and minus points as we look to 2001 and beyond.
We wanted to improve on our win loss ratio and we have...marginally.Now I was looking to 8 wins pre season as a good year; we won't make that but if we beat Sydney and that's an even money bet, then we've had a successful year on my reckoning.
Plus Points:
*We belted Carlton by over 70 points
*We beat Sydney in a thriller, IN SYDNEY!
*Defeated Footscray at Docklands in a thriller.
*We've blooded many young future stars who will be Magpies for the next 5-6 years.
*Our coach has long term vision, is a PROVEN strategist,is a great teacher of young kids and is in for the long journey.
*We cleaned out 17 players, many of whom stuggled to get a regular game in a wooden spoon side.
* We have players ready to take the next step:
Tarrant-star status; Johnson - tough and uncompromising with good skills(his kicking penetration is much improved);Adkins -fine skills, evasive, tons of pace and courage(tends to try to do too much still);Fraser - a genuine star of the future and undoudtedly, a future captain; O'Bree- a tough in-close work horse; Mal Michael-skilled, versatile back or forward;
Leon Davis- pace to burn,2001 to see him explode; Rhys Shaw - another star in the wings; Lockyer -genuine skilled player who's lost confidence, but will bounce back
Minus Points:
*Losing 9 in a row(obviously)
*Losing the Geelong match
*Our insipid performance agaist Freo- easily our most inept all year.
*Gav Crosisca losing so much form that he was for 2000 a shadow of his former self.
*A backline that lacks class and talls with mobility(Richo and Presti have battled manfully but are stop gaps)-we need genuine class down back
*A forward structure that isn't. Admittedly I didn't see Sunday's game , but thanks to Nick and Mike, heard it, and our forward line just can't mark, convert or keep the ball in.
Points of Interest:
*Who gets cut from our list
*wheeling and dealing in the pre-draft
Finally, my list of players to be cut or traded:
* Sav- no question he'll go, and so he should.
* Patterson-definite, should have gone last year.
* Crosisca definite, hope they play him in the last game-this would be a fitting gesture to a fine clubman
* Smith-no talent or football brains
* McKee A real disappointment who was given plenty of chances
* Orchard-they prob won't but I don't feel he's up to it
* Tyson Lane- stop gap...trade him whilst he's tradable
**Williams- inconsistent, too easily tagged out of the game and being paid a fortune- would get plenty of trading opportunities.
Having said all that, I can't wait for 2001 when we should look to a 50/50 win loss ratio and be knocking on the door of the eight.
2002 should be really exciting!I'm genuinely excited and optimistic about the next couple of years; we all should be....even you Alf.
Towards 2001
Moderator: bbmods
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rash
Great points Neil.
I would probably have to agree with all of them even though I would be sad to see Willow go. Have you noticed that when the chips are down, Willow goes AWOL. When we are winning he is a star. I think a couple of the kids from last year will make the step up to regular senior players. eg. Nick Davis, James Wasley, Brad O'Borne. I also like Heath Scotland. He shows a lot of courage.
I would probably have to agree with all of them even though I would be sad to see Willow go. Have you noticed that when the chips are down, Willow goes AWOL. When we are winning he is a star. I think a couple of the kids from last year will make the step up to regular senior players. eg. Nick Davis, James Wasley, Brad O'Borne. I also like Heath Scotland. He shows a lot of courage.
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*miss_magpie*
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Willo definately should stay at the club, it does seem that he usually only plays well when the team as a whole plays well, but still shows a lot of talent at all times
Hopefully you're right about brad obourne etc. stepping up to the seniours, week in and week out they all play fairly well in the reserves and are skilful players.
Hopefully you're right about brad obourne etc. stepping up to the seniours, week in and week out they all play fairly well in the reserves and are skilful players.
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Neil Appleby
You're right 'Rash', how did I leave Nick Davis and Scotland off the list?
Davis is a certain regular for next year and I like Scotland a lot - just a bit worried about his mobility though.
Wasley and Oborne are another matter; I hate being critical but think Wasley one dimensional. Relies on pace but that's about all he has. Oborne has taken longer to settle in hasn't he? I'll save my judgement but I'm not overly optimistic about him; I haven't liked his body language and his attitude to some other players looks disrespectful; he looked to abuse Patterson on a number of occasions this year....now I know I've bagged Patto here often enough, but gee, it looks bad on the field when that sort of thing happens.
I forgot Jacotine also; I'd dump this bloke too. He's not going to cut it so we might as well bite the bullet.
Also, I didn't mention Olerenshaw, but who really cares; he's already had his name crossed off the list. As a matter of fact, he'd be first on the coach's list I reckon cos no-one would be interested in doing deals with him.
Davis is a certain regular for next year and I like Scotland a lot - just a bit worried about his mobility though.
Wasley and Oborne are another matter; I hate being critical but think Wasley one dimensional. Relies on pace but that's about all he has. Oborne has taken longer to settle in hasn't he? I'll save my judgement but I'm not overly optimistic about him; I haven't liked his body language and his attitude to some other players looks disrespectful; he looked to abuse Patterson on a number of occasions this year....now I know I've bagged Patto here often enough, but gee, it looks bad on the field when that sort of thing happens.
I forgot Jacotine also; I'd dump this bloke too. He's not going to cut it so we might as well bite the bullet.
Also, I didn't mention Olerenshaw, but who really cares; he's already had his name crossed off the list. As a matter of fact, he'd be first on the coach's list I reckon cos no-one would be interested in doing deals with him.
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AlfAndrews
Yes, Neil. I'm looking forward to 2002. It looks like being a football-free year for us Collingwood fans. Because the Club will almost certainly be extinct by then and it will be be a great load off my mind. At last. The perfect excuse to give up football and get a life.
How can you possibly see any cause for optimism? This season was far, far WORSE than 1999. We may have have won 2 more games, but at least in 1999 we were competitive in many of our losing games. I recall one 4-week period in which we lost 3 games by less than a goal. This year we haven't played a decent game since April.
I began this season with great optimism because I genuinely believed that we were the best side outside the 8 in 1999. This year we are THE worst team in the League, bar none. If St.Kilda had not been missing Loewe and Everitt that night they would have beaten us for sure.
You said the Freo game was our most inept for the year. Bollocks. That was one of our better performances. Freo played brilliantly that night and deserved full credit for their performance.
The match that takes the cake as far as I'm concerned was the Richmond game. Why? Because Richmond played like a bag of shit that day. They were disgraceful. And yet they still beat us by plenty. That match was the defining moment in our season. I went to that game thinking that we would arrest the slump. But the only thing that got arrested that day was Joffa. I left that match utterly disgusted and humiliated because I knew then that our season was gone, buried and utterly wasted.
In fact it's worse than wasted. We are living on borrowed time. Every shit season we have brings us just that little bit closer to extinction. People laugh at me when I warn them that Collingwood is becoming the new Fitzroy, but it's happening right before our eyes. I thought we were up shit creek in a barbed wire canoe, but it might be more a case of that river in Egypt, de Nial.
I don't think there's a lot of trade bait on that list of players you said should be shown the door. Patterson should go back to Norwood. He'd probably be a handy player for the Redlegs. Smith and McKee aren't worth the paper they're printed on. No club would be dumb enough to want Sav. Bagga is simply too old. Orchard and Lane are only run-of-the-mill types. We won't get any stars in return for them. That only leaves Williams. It's also possible that a few of our rising stars might not fancy playing for the easybeats of the AFL. Most footballers these days would sell their grandmothers for a bit of glory.
So, please. Spare me the optimism. I'm really glad we've got a long off-season coming up because I've had a gutful of football this year.
I'm not sure why I'm still using this signature. It's starting to look extremely ironic, isn't it?
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**floreat pica**
How can you possibly see any cause for optimism? This season was far, far WORSE than 1999. We may have have won 2 more games, but at least in 1999 we were competitive in many of our losing games. I recall one 4-week period in which we lost 3 games by less than a goal. This year we haven't played a decent game since April.
I began this season with great optimism because I genuinely believed that we were the best side outside the 8 in 1999. This year we are THE worst team in the League, bar none. If St.Kilda had not been missing Loewe and Everitt that night they would have beaten us for sure.
You said the Freo game was our most inept for the year. Bollocks. That was one of our better performances. Freo played brilliantly that night and deserved full credit for their performance.
The match that takes the cake as far as I'm concerned was the Richmond game. Why? Because Richmond played like a bag of shit that day. They were disgraceful. And yet they still beat us by plenty. That match was the defining moment in our season. I went to that game thinking that we would arrest the slump. But the only thing that got arrested that day was Joffa. I left that match utterly disgusted and humiliated because I knew then that our season was gone, buried and utterly wasted.
In fact it's worse than wasted. We are living on borrowed time. Every shit season we have brings us just that little bit closer to extinction. People laugh at me when I warn them that Collingwood is becoming the new Fitzroy, but it's happening right before our eyes. I thought we were up shit creek in a barbed wire canoe, but it might be more a case of that river in Egypt, de Nial.
I don't think there's a lot of trade bait on that list of players you said should be shown the door. Patterson should go back to Norwood. He'd probably be a handy player for the Redlegs. Smith and McKee aren't worth the paper they're printed on. No club would be dumb enough to want Sav. Bagga is simply too old. Orchard and Lane are only run-of-the-mill types. We won't get any stars in return for them. That only leaves Williams. It's also possible that a few of our rising stars might not fancy playing for the easybeats of the AFL. Most footballers these days would sell their grandmothers for a bit of glory.
So, please. Spare me the optimism. I'm really glad we've got a long off-season coming up because I've had a gutful of football this year.
I'm not sure why I'm still using this signature. It's starting to look extremely ironic, isn't it?
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**floreat pica**
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Broadie
- Posts: 710
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 1999 8:01 pm
- Location: VIC
Alf & Joel: go read Joffa's quotes about being a fan. (actually I'm surprised you can still type Alf. You've slit your wrists than many times this season that I thought you would have damaged nerves by now)
Neil: great summaries of our strength / weakness. Have to say I agree with all of it (including trying to trade Willo - only because he's the only player who we can afford to trade and will be wanted by others) except the Wazza assessment.
I've been quite critical of him in these posts, but the last 3 games I've seen him his disposal has improved dramatically and he's finally learning not to hang on to the ball fot too long.
Only other query is Licuria: he gets the ball a HEAP, but turns it over more than half the time. If his disposal skills don't improve dramatically he has to go. By my calculations he cost us 3 goals vs Adelaide.
Bring on 2001, a season of steady improvement - but 2002 will see us back in our rightful finals place.
Neil: great summaries of our strength / weakness. Have to say I agree with all of it (including trying to trade Willo - only because he's the only player who we can afford to trade and will be wanted by others) except the Wazza assessment.
I've been quite critical of him in these posts, but the last 3 games I've seen him his disposal has improved dramatically and he's finally learning not to hang on to the ball fot too long.
Only other query is Licuria: he gets the ball a HEAP, but turns it over more than half the time. If his disposal skills don't improve dramatically he has to go. By my calculations he cost us 3 goals vs Adelaide.
Bring on 2001, a season of steady improvement - but 2002 will see us back in our rightful finals place.
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Spidergirl
Alf it's simple, just change teams. By most of your comments on here it sounds like sound like barracking for Collingwood is a real chore for u then why don't u just piss off to another club (dont take that the wrong way or anything) and save yourself the heartbreak. Or go watch Rugby or some other shit sport if that's how u feel or go get some new hobby. If you only want to win all the time then you may as well move over to Essendon but surely winning all the time would get boring and look how arrogant the Essendon morons have become, they will even be up there with the arrogant Carlton supporters soon.
I can't really see this club folding within the next ten years or so but i can see St.Kilda surely merging (although other Saints fans continue to laugh at me when i suggest this) and maybe Geelong might go too. Why the AFL ever brought crap teams like Port and Freo in is beyond me. Anyway Alf you must still love Collingwood if you come on this website surely???
#8 RoCkS
Go RiCkY!
I can't really see this club folding within the next ten years or so but i can see St.Kilda surely merging (although other Saints fans continue to laugh at me when i suggest this) and maybe Geelong might go too. Why the AFL ever brought crap teams like Port and Freo in is beyond me. Anyway Alf you must still love Collingwood if you come on this website surely???
#8 RoCkS
Go RiCkY!
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AlfAndrews
Do I still love Collingwood?
Yes, but it's become a sort of love/hate relationship. Not very healthy.
As long as Collingwood exists I'll feel compelled to support them. Changing teams is not an option. Why would I want ANOTHER sick addiction in my life? Football is a mug's game, win, lose or draw.
Barracking for Collingwood is a bit like caring for a terminally ill relative. You can't desert them because you know that would be disloyal. But you also know that they're never going to be well again. And so there's a part of you that just wants them to die quietly. Partly to end their suffering. And partly to set yourself free so you can just get on with your life and do something else.
Sometimes the anger builds up and you want to rant and rave at them and tell them how pathetic they are. But most of the time you just feel pity.
I'll tell you a little story, Spidergirl. And anyone else who thinks I'm disloyal. I was sitting on a tram on my way to the Hawthorn match at Colonial, dressed in my black and white gear. Some idiot came up to me and said, "How are the Wobbles going to go tonight? Are they going to win or are they going to get the Colliwobbles?" I just said, "Piss off." Then he got all offended and tried to tell me he was just making conversation. I turned to him and gave him the most evil look I could conjure up. And I then said to him, "You think that's conversation, do you? Slagging off my team? Listen you [expletive]. Don't you dare bag my Club, you [expletive]. Go [explete] yourself."
So, as much as I grizzle about the way the Pies are going, and as pessimistic as I am about the Club's future, if anyone from ANOTHER club tries to bag Collingwood I will stick up for my Club to the hilt. Because in spite of all their shortcomings, Collingwood is still my Club.
How dare this moron on the tram talk that sort of crap. I gave the dickhead a piece of my mind and he just crawled off back into his shell. It will be a long time before that particular dickhead takes a cheap shot at Collingwood again.
So, does that make me a hypocrite? What's the difference between me bagging the Club or this jerk on the tram bagging the Club?
I'll try to explain.
The jerk on the tram was taking a CHEAP SHOT at Collingwood. The shots I've been taking at Collingwood are anything but "cheap". They're a product of suffering week after week for something I believe in - the "idea" of Collingwood.
And unfortunately, the "idea" of Collingwood that I believe in is not matched by the reality.
There's thick ... there's thin ... and there's bloody hopeless. And in the last few years I've been learning the difference.
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**floreat pica**
Yes, but it's become a sort of love/hate relationship. Not very healthy.
As long as Collingwood exists I'll feel compelled to support them. Changing teams is not an option. Why would I want ANOTHER sick addiction in my life? Football is a mug's game, win, lose or draw.
Barracking for Collingwood is a bit like caring for a terminally ill relative. You can't desert them because you know that would be disloyal. But you also know that they're never going to be well again. And so there's a part of you that just wants them to die quietly. Partly to end their suffering. And partly to set yourself free so you can just get on with your life and do something else.
Sometimes the anger builds up and you want to rant and rave at them and tell them how pathetic they are. But most of the time you just feel pity.
I'll tell you a little story, Spidergirl. And anyone else who thinks I'm disloyal. I was sitting on a tram on my way to the Hawthorn match at Colonial, dressed in my black and white gear. Some idiot came up to me and said, "How are the Wobbles going to go tonight? Are they going to win or are they going to get the Colliwobbles?" I just said, "Piss off." Then he got all offended and tried to tell me he was just making conversation. I turned to him and gave him the most evil look I could conjure up. And I then said to him, "You think that's conversation, do you? Slagging off my team? Listen you [expletive]. Don't you dare bag my Club, you [expletive]. Go [explete] yourself."
So, as much as I grizzle about the way the Pies are going, and as pessimistic as I am about the Club's future, if anyone from ANOTHER club tries to bag Collingwood I will stick up for my Club to the hilt. Because in spite of all their shortcomings, Collingwood is still my Club.
How dare this moron on the tram talk that sort of crap. I gave the dickhead a piece of my mind and he just crawled off back into his shell. It will be a long time before that particular dickhead takes a cheap shot at Collingwood again.
So, does that make me a hypocrite? What's the difference between me bagging the Club or this jerk on the tram bagging the Club?
I'll try to explain.
The jerk on the tram was taking a CHEAP SHOT at Collingwood. The shots I've been taking at Collingwood are anything but "cheap". They're a product of suffering week after week for something I believe in - the "idea" of Collingwood.
And unfortunately, the "idea" of Collingwood that I believe in is not matched by the reality.
There's thick ... there's thin ... and there's bloody hopeless. And in the last few years I've been learning the difference.
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**floreat pica**
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GeorgeQ
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- Location: Stirling, ACT, Australia
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MagpieMark
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2000 6:01 pm
- Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
OK here is my two cents worth
I am 28 and live in Queensland and have barracked/suported Collingwood since i can remember. In 1987 we got flogged by 130+ points against Hawthorn and I though oh bugger what is going on. That year we had all of the young blokes (Gavin Brown, Crossisca, Wright etc) playing like the young blokes are today..just playing but still losing. The next year we made the finals.
Maybe, just maybe that these young blokes (if they stay with us) will learn and with a great coach we will come back. Just have faith, this is a crap year, but most clubs go through these times and we will emerge again.
God I wish i was in the train with the other poster(sorry i forgot your name!) and i would have did exactly the same thing.
Have the faith fellow magpies because it will change even if i am the only supporter left
Mark
I am 28 and live in Queensland and have barracked/suported Collingwood since i can remember. In 1987 we got flogged by 130+ points against Hawthorn and I though oh bugger what is going on. That year we had all of the young blokes (Gavin Brown, Crossisca, Wright etc) playing like the young blokes are today..just playing but still losing. The next year we made the finals.
Maybe, just maybe that these young blokes (if they stay with us) will learn and with a great coach we will come back. Just have faith, this is a crap year, but most clubs go through these times and we will emerge again.
God I wish i was in the train with the other poster(sorry i forgot your name!) and i would have did exactly the same thing.
Have the faith fellow magpies because it will change even if i am the only supporter left
Mark
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Newelly
- Posts: 841
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- Has liked: 86 times
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well we really gotta forget about all the years pres 1998 back to 1994 cause those were the missing years where we bought shit players to try and make the finals but just ended up with mediocre seasons.
in 1999 Shaw started playing youngsters and Malthouse has kept it up. Alf I know exactly how you feel and I almost want to move over to merry old england next year so even if my team loses i and many other ssupporters can still rightfully beat the loose mustard out of opposition fans as is the norm. Though seriously i guess just have to give the club two more years and I for one will totally ignore any winning streak or good start that the club makes to the 2001 season.
I am going to shut my eyes for the first 14 matches of the season and then take a peek at say round 15 and see where the team is and how many they have lost in a row to see if 2001 is even worth the loss of hair and hypertension.
in 1999 Shaw started playing youngsters and Malthouse has kept it up. Alf I know exactly how you feel and I almost want to move over to merry old england next year so even if my team loses i and many other ssupporters can still rightfully beat the loose mustard out of opposition fans as is the norm. Though seriously i guess just have to give the club two more years and I for one will totally ignore any winning streak or good start that the club makes to the 2001 season.
I am going to shut my eyes for the first 14 matches of the season and then take a peek at say round 15 and see where the team is and how many they have lost in a row to see if 2001 is even worth the loss of hair and hypertension.
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nikki
MAgpieMArk,
well said that ius exactly what is going to happen, these young guys are going to come around something will click just like that and look out us magpie army will be back screaming and cheering our beloved collingwood... God kow we deserve it....
We are future champions and i reckon we are already there being legends and great champions
GO THE MIGHTY PIES!!!!
and mark belive me you wont be the only supporter out there, i'll be with ya
well said that ius exactly what is going to happen, these young guys are going to come around something will click just like that and look out us magpie army will be back screaming and cheering our beloved collingwood... God kow we deserve it....
We are future champions and i reckon we are already there being legends and great champions
GO THE MIGHTY PIES!!!!
and mark belive me you wont be the only supporter out there, i'll be with ya
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nikki