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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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_________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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Milo was on the Bolt Report again last night, this time discussing his recent ban on Twitter and the issues of free speech.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmctktE0xXI _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Once again just proves that Twitter and tweeting is for morons! For saying things that they probably would not dare say face to face. I just don't get why anyone bothers. It's just so anti social. It could do really good things, and yet so many just want to use it to be nasty. If you don't like the movie, say the movie stinks, but did the actress, no matter what her colour, religion or weight on the scales is, deserve to be attacked?
And just because "others do it, or worse" doesn't make it acceptable. Double standards? Then put your money and time elsewhere. It costs nothing to have manners and be nice. Or silent. If you can't disagree with someone else's opinion without resorting to abuse, your the one with the problem.
On a side note, read the comments! Amazing how many of the Americans see Bolt! For what it's worth, I've always enjoyed reading his stuff, way back when it was the second thing after the footy I looked for in the paper! _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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I think Bolta's got a mancrush |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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think positive wrote: | Once again just proves that Twitter and tweeting is for morons! For saying things that they probably would not dare say face to face. I just don't get why anyone bothers. It's just so anti social. It could do really good things, and yet so many just want to use it to be nasty. If you don't like the movie, say the movie stinks, but did the actress, no matter what her colour, religion or weight on the scales is, deserve to be attacked?
And just because "others do it, or worse" doesn't make it acceptable. Double standards? Then put your money and time elsewhere. It costs nothing to have manners and be nice. Or silent. If you can't disagree with someone else's opinion without resorting to abuse, your the one with the problem.
On a side note, read the comments! Amazing how many of the Americans see Bolt! For what it's worth, I've always enjoyed reading his stuff, way back when it was the second thing after the footy I looked for in the paper! |
I don't mind Twitter, but then again I don't have many progressive lefties that i follow so I don't get to see all the angst ridden pap unless I go looking for it, which I sometimes do just to wind them up. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Wokko wrote: | I think Bolta's got a mancrush |
Well, perhaps he does: apparently for Milo (see link in previous post) 'sex between “younger boys” and older men could be a “coming-of-age relationship … in which those older men help those younger boys discover who they are”.' |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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One fine day, the right wingers here will be intelligent enough to at least recognise the huge difference between free speech and hate speech. One entitles you to have your own opinion under peaceful societal rules irrespective of someone else’s' views, and the other incites/advocates action relating to hatred, violence and vitriolic speech against someone else that in effect cause pain, anger and sadness to the others. Radio shock jocks are a great example of these bloody imbeciles. _________________ Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Lazza wrote: | One fine day, the right wingers here will be intelligent enough to at least recognise the huge difference between free speech and hate speech. One entitles you to have your own opinion under peaceful societal rules irrespective of someone else’s' views, and the other incites/advocates action relating to hatred, violence and vitriolic speech against someone else that in effect cause pain, anger and sadness to the others. Radio shock jocks are a great example of these bloody imbeciles. |
Where are those BIG hands clapping _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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think positive wrote: | Lazza wrote: | One fine day, the right wingers here will be intelligent enough to at least recognise the huge difference between free speech and hate speech. One entitles you to have your own opinion under peaceful societal rules irrespective of someone else’s' views, and the other incites/advocates action relating to hatred, violence and vitriolic speech against someone else that in effect cause pain, anger and sadness to the others. Radio shock jocks are a great example of these bloody imbeciles. |
Where are those BIG hands clapping |
Nah, lots of things in speech cause "pain, anger or sadness". And on the basis of the evidence I've seen, it's the "progressive Left" which has so much difficulty distinguishing between forthright criticism and hate speech, frequently labeling views they do not like as the latter.
I think there is such a thing as hate speech - it is speech that explicitly advocates groups being subjected to physical violence or unlawful conduct. I could live with that being banned. But the feelings of any individual, even if justified (and of course the snowflake Left find justification under every hedge) are never in themselves a good reason to suppress opinion. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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Mugwump wrote: | think positive wrote: | Lazza wrote: | One fine day, the right wingers here will be intelligent enough to at least recognise the huge difference between free speech and hate speech. One entitles you to have your own opinion under peaceful societal rules irrespective of someone else’s' views, and the other incites/advocates action relating to hatred, violence and vitriolic speech against someone else that in effect cause pain, anger and sadness to the others. Radio shock jocks are a great example of these bloody imbeciles. |
Where are those BIG hands clapping |
Nah, lots of things in speech cause "pain, anger or sadness". And on the basis of the evidence I've seen, it's the "progressive Left" which has so much difficulty distinguishing between forthright criticism and hate speech, frequently labeling views they do not like as the latter.
I think there is such a thing as hate speech - it is speech that explicitly advocates groups being subjected to physical violence or unlawful conduct. I could live with that being banned. But the feelings of any individual, even if justified (and of course the snowflake Left find justification under every hedge) are never in themselves a good reason to suppress opinion. |
Just putting the blame on the other side is a pathetic answer really. It is despicable nonsense that this type of attitude and behaviour only belongs to one group. Having said that, as a frequent poster to Nick's I read this type of attitude here only from the right wingers on this forum. If you can show me hate speech advocated from a left leaning poster, please feel totally free to show me their quote/s.
Putting it another way, MY opinion is that it is perfectly permissible and in fact totally credible to suppress opinion, challenge and counter any proposition that incites hate and detestable vitriol towards another person or group in our society that causes much angst to the recipients. The ONLY exceptions are people with terrorist or evil tendencies/intentions I reckon. Not an ounce of sympathy for those bastards. _________________ Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Lazza, you started off by alleging that right wingers were "not intelligent enough" to distinguish between free speech and hate speech. I pointed out that the Left are certainly not good at distinguishing that either, when it suits them. You then said it was "pathetic" of me to blame one side, which is the sport you clearly commenced and I tried to balance. We're not going to make much progress with that kind of logic.
I should add that civility is a great virtue, and decency and respect for those with other views should be expected. But the use of the term "hate speech" to censor opinions which cause hurt feelings is not valid, in my view, because feelings are subjective and personal and you cannot, or should not, use a subjective power to control a public space. Note that I support prosecution of real hate speech, such as trolling advocating rape or violence etc. As with many things, I would be rather more severe on the perpetrators of that kind of hate speech than our fairly useless justice system is today. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Pies4shaw wrote: | Wokko wrote: | I think Bolta's got a mancrush |
Well, perhaps he does: apparently for Milo (see link in previous post) 'sex between “younger boys” and older men could be a “coming-of-age relationship … in which those older men help those younger boys discover who they are”.' |
I seem to recall Stephen Fry saying something similar at one stage. It may seem repellent to us, but I'm also aware that gay men who make such claims are often simply reflecting on their own experiences as teenagers – and that leads us to the rather substantial problem of either having to assert their victimhood while they deny it, or accepting that such matters are rather more complicated than our culture insists. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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Mugwump wrote: | Lazza, you started off by alleging that right wingers were "not intelligent enough" to distinguish between free speech and hate speech. I pointed out that the Left are certainly not good at distinguishing that either, when it suits them. You then said it was "pathetic" of me to blame one side, which is the sport you clearly commenced and I tried to balance. We're not going to make much progress with that kind of logic.
I should add that civility is a great virtue, and decency and respect for those with other views should be expected. But the use of the term "hate speech" to censor opinions which cause hurt feelings is not valid, in my view, because feelings are subjective and personal and you cannot, or should not, use a subjective power to control a public space. Note that I support prosecution of real hate speech, such as trolling advocating rape or violence etc. As with many things, I would be rather more severe on that kind of hate speech than our fairly useless court system is today. |
You are digressing, diverting and changing the topic to suit your own needs. I clarified that I meant that right wingers were "not intelligent enough" to distinguish between free speech and hate speech on this forum. Then I challenged you to provide me with evidence that this is not a true statement. Happy for you to provide this.
I say that trying to muddy the waters by some posters whinging that free speech is being disallowed when they actually mean hate speech is disingenuous of you. _________________ Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Lazza wrote: | Mugwump wrote: | Lazza, you started off by alleging that right wingers were "not intelligent enough" to distinguish between free speech and hate speech. I pointed out that the Left are certainly not good at distinguishing that either, when it suits them. You then said it was "pathetic" of me to blame one side, which is the sport you clearly commenced and I tried to balance. We're not going to make much progress with that kind of logic.
I should add that civility is a great virtue, and decency and respect for those with other views should be expected. But the use of the term "hate speech" to censor opinions which cause hurt feelings is not valid, in my view, because feelings are subjective and personal and you cannot, or should not, use a subjective power to control a public space. Note that I support prosecution of real hate speech, such as trolling advocating rape or violence etc. As with many things, I would be rather more severe on that kind of hate speech than our fairly useless court system is today. |
You are digressing, diverting and changing the topic to suit your own needs. I clarified that I meant that right wingers were "not intelligent enough" to distinguish between free speech and hate speech on this forum. Then I challenged you to provide me with evidence that this is not a true statement. Happy for you to provide this.
I say that trying to muddy the waters by some posters whinging that free speech is being disallowed when they actually mean hate speech is disingenuous of you. |
I can't follow your logic at all, I'm afraid, and if anyone is digressing it's you, I think - but anyway, I'd say that those of us on the right are certainly regularly assailed with charges - dishonestly and unjustifiably - of racism, bigotry and various psychiatric "phobias" on this forum and by Leftists in society at large. Is that what you mean ? I'm truly not sure what you are talking about, other than you seem to be upset because right wingers do not share your view that "hate speech" is something that offends someone's feelings. And that's correct. If you want me to point out instances of where conservatives on this forum do adopt this largely Leftist position, then consider your challenge rather pointlessly successful.
You can have the last word, though, because I can't grasp the logic of your argument and it's probably not going to add much to the sum of knowledge to pursue this further, at this point. _________________ Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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