Eurydice Dixon
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Mugwump wrote: | ^ I think that psychological help is available to such people now, via the GP system. If additional confidentiality were to be required to encourage people to seek help, that is also worth considering. I suspect that attempts to head this stuff off at the individual level, however, are unlikely to make much difference. It was not common once. Now, relatively, it is. Until we ask why, and face some uncomfortable possibilities, it is unlikely to reduce. |
Due in part to lack of discipline in upbringing not teaching personal responsibility, respecting the rights and personal space of others and allowing bulletin excuses for anything and everything I will reckon
Great post David Im coming around more to your way of thinking every year! _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ Yep, those things have a large impact, TP. The question is why these behaviours are now commonplace. What changed to make them so, and why?
There was a solid, sensible article in the Age today by Madonna King on this case and the reaction to it, too. I did have to grimace at the headline, however : where to direct your hurt and hate .... its odd that so many people who did not know her should consider themselves hurt by the tragic and senseless death of this young woman, or that they feel they have a right to hate. Her family and friends have a right to feel hurt, pain etc. For those of us who did not know her, one would think that sorrow, horror and sadness are appropriate. But we alll seem so desperate to make ourselves and our feelings the center of the story, however remote from it we actually are. I find that curious. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Are they really more common place or is there just less tolerance and higher expectations?
Domestic violence isn't necessarily a bigger thing now, it may even be less, but it's not hushed up and hidden any more. It used to be a dirty secret, common knowledge but not spoken about that if Al left the pub in a bad mood this arvo, the missus was gonna cop flogging when he got home.
I saw an article on line that I can't find now, the day after Eurydice was murdered, about random murder of women in the same are in the 1940's. A US Service man was caught, courtmartialed and hung by the US military, the last execution in Australia not by an Australian judiciary. These kind of vicious attacks on strangers happened, but the reporting of them was far far less.
Edit, found the article.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/the-brownout-strangler-killed-women-across-melbourne/news-story/8ce6d33c7e48301ee1c339993e1f1fcb
The Brownout Strangler was his moniker, Edward Leonski his name.
http://ergo.slv.vic.gov.au/explore-history/rebels-outlaws/city-criminals/brown-out-strangler
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Leonski
In the 40's and 50's, young single women didn't walk the streets at night alone. Married women were home with their husbands.
The expectations of womens rights have changed dramatically, for the better, and the vast majority of males have come along for the ride. Some more reluctantly and slowly than others, but they've come.
The people who commit rape and murder have always been there, we're just no better at preventing them _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ I knew of the Leonski case, and there was another serial killing spree of girls as children in 1936. There are relatively few stranger murders of women, historically, though of course the Victorian population was substantially smaller then.
I had in mind the Vukotic case, the Meagher case and the Dixon case, all within the last three years. You may be right that these can be attributed to more young women walking alone at night, but the frequency is striking.
Domestic violence rates are historically impossible to compare, I think, given the nature of the crime and its setting, reportability etc. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Also factor in alcohol and reasons to be out in the evening.
Back in those days, pubs shut at 6pm. Shops closed at 5pm. Going out to eat at a restaurant wasn't common place, there was little reason to be out after 6pm.
People also didn't walk or jog for exercise back then, they did it for transportation.
Basically, if the number of people inclined to do these kind of acts hasn't increased, the number of potential targets has. Significantly.
I see tonight in the news, a young woman has reported being sexually assaulted during a night out, but can't recall much of the detail as she'd been drinking. https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/woman-taken-into-vehicle-on-lygon-street-sexually-assaulted-20180621-p4zmwe.html _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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stui magpie wrote: | ^
Also factor in alcohol and reasons to be out in the evening.
Back in those days, pubs shut at 6pm. Shops closed at 5pm. Going out to eat at a restaurant wasn't common place, there was little reason to be out after 6pm.
People also didn't walk or jog for exercise back then, they did it for transportation.
Basically, if the number of people inclined to do these kind of acts hasn't increased, the number of potential targets has. Significantly.
I see tonight in the news, a young woman has reported being sexually assaulted during a night out, but can't recall much of the detail as she'd been drinking. https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/woman-taken-into-vehicle-on-lygon-street-sexually-assaulted-20180621-p4zmwe.html |
Yes, no doubt that all plays a role. As does the decline of patrol-based policing, increasing urban anonymity, the availability of cars to criminals, the widespread use of mind-altering drugs and other things besides.
We can speculate on a hundred possible factors, which is partly why I think that prevention strategies are a bit needle-in-a-haystack and unlikely to work.
Given that we cannot unwind the disintegration of our society, I think the only reasonable remedy is to stop releasing people who have a history of violence towards women, and to mete out stern justice to the perpetrators. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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That doesnt surprise me. When I worked for the Civil Sevice in the Uk we knew that 1% of families accounted for >70% of crime and >60% of police and social worker time etc.
The problem is indeed what to do with them, as they seem fairly resistant to any amelioration, no matter what resources or focus we put in. We used to say that itd be cheaper to give them all Ł100k a year to go and live in Monaco. For reasons of nature and nurture, some people have a problem with their inhibitory system, and they are more likely to use a lot of drugs (incl alcohol). And so it goes.
It does suggest that the largest contributor to declining crime rates in recent years may be higher, and longer, incarceration of these people. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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think positive wrote: | thesoretoothsayer wrote: | Two daughters: 18 and 13.
They don't conflate feminism and women. Why do you? |
i dont, i dont give a shit about titles such as feminism, its as helpful as racist terms.
you trivialized sexual assault. you certainly cant compare it to locking your car door or getting swooped by magpies.
if you leave your front door unlocked and you get robbed, the robber is in the wrong, but your stupid, ditto stolen cars, if you have sons too, i hope you've taught them respect for others, |
Agreed. Correct weight. _________________ âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Surprised that they were able to track him down. Will be interesting to hear the motive and whether my theories were correct. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." â Julian Assange |
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Nick - Pie Man
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
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Damn, not quite what I was expecting. At thirty one you have to assume a certain level of maturity. |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 Location: The 18
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While it might have been highly inappropriate, spray painting on a piece of grass in a public park still appears less offensive to me than those who would choose to graffiti a permanent war memorial or an individuals headstone in a cemetery. _________________ He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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people with decent morals wouldnt do any of the above. but then She would be alive, and there would probably be no wars either. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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swoop42 wrote: | While it might have been highly inappropriate, spray painting on a piece of grass in a public park still appears less offensive to me than those who would choose to graffiti a permanent war memorial or an individuals headstone in a cemetery. |
Why introduce an irrelevant comparison to this awful act rahter than adress the act itself? By way of doing so, you intentionally or unintentionally try to make allowance for the pretty f*cked behaviour.
It is sadly, another act of another pathetic male. _________________ âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
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