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Mossi
Joined: 20 May 2002 Location: Vittorio Veneto TV Italy
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themonk wrote: | I have a feeling many will disagree but I wouldn't have Maxwell in our best 22.
He has been important in terms of leadership & experience to our backline but his skills are ordinary and I hope someone will take the next step this year and push him out, possibly Keefe. |
Maxy is still in our best 22 for the moment! His skills are not that bad he just looks a little aukward, but its his qualities apart from his leadership that warrant this! He is tough! Wont take a step back even with the most intimidating forwards or players the other sides come up with, can tackle hard, shepherd for his team mates can read the play better than most, makes good decisions. His only down side is his lack of pace but that is usually made up by his other qualities. That being said I am sure if a Hartley begins to fill those shoes and Maxy drops off Bucks wont hesitate to replace him! I like the idea of the best 32 or 35 more than 22! In the end it's at least a best 30 that will win us a flag! |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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You know, I have a quiet feeling in the back of my mind that the dark horse in the senior selection race hasn't been mentioned. No real evidence, just a gut feeling, but I reckon by the time we are talking about the 2014 side, possibly even the side for late this year, we will be be looking at a quiet achiever named Tim Broomhead.
Bookmark this post if you like, it will be interesting to see how the lad goes. I just reckon he has a look of steely whatever-it-takes determination in his eye and that, like Goldsack and Blair and Toovey, he'll just keep putting his hand up 'till he's in the side for keeps. _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
If you're talking about depth, lets not forget the Rookies.
Dwyer and Frost are both mature age who I expect the Club considers ready to step straight in if required. You don't draft a 26 year old if you think it will take 2 years to develop him.
Add Oxley to that although he's only 21, but the first 2 I would think are right there in contention. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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perthmagpie
Joined: 27 Mar 2004 Location: Yarrawonga
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I'm not greatly concerned by the fact that seventeen players from our 2010 team are still in our best 22. We were the youngest premiers for 32 years so those players' best football was always well ahead of them.
My greatest concern is that we need to unearth two new players with explosive speed and evasiveness to break the game open in offensive transition. I have no doubt other teams will believe pace is our Achilles heal in 2013. Young may well be one of them, but the group of Mooney, Kennedy, Elliott and Seedsman need to improve greatly so we can overcome this deficiency.
Also I'd like to see a small generational change emerge in our back line. Something that increases our rebound and something that improves our ability to shut down players like Rioli, Betts, Garlett, Jetta, Breust etc. We can't rely on Toovey to do all the shutting down. Perhaps Russell or Williams can perform this role to the required level. _________________ Magpies love pies(Lol) |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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perthmagpie wrote: | My greatest concern is that we need to unearth two new players with explosive speed and evasiveness to break the game open in offensive transition. I have no doubt other teams will believe pace is our Achilles heal in 2013. Young may well be one of them, but the group of Mooney, Kennedy, Elliott and Seedsman need to improve greatly so we can overcome this deficiency.
Also I'd like to see a small generational change emerge in our back line. Something that increases our rebound and something that improves our ability to shut down players like Rioli, Betts, Garlett, Jetta, Breust etc. We can't rely on Toovey to do all the shutting down. |
So why do we have Heater and Harry?
I'm not being a dick here, it's a genuine question in response to an excellent, thoughtful post. If Toovey is our only shut-down player suitable for restricting the likes of Betts and Jetta (which he is), and if we believe that we are not getting enough drive off half-back on the transition, why do we even have Heater and Harry? What are they there for?
(Stand by for some moronic Captain Obvious type to quote that last para out of context and make a complete dork of himself. I am not saying that H & H are not good players, they are excellent players and their Grand Final performances won us a premiership not too long ago, but what I am saying is that I'm struggling to find a clearly defined role for those two in the same way that I can define Toovey's role or the role of Brown and Reid, or possibly even Captain Nick's role.)
PS: We should be mentioning Ben Johnson somewhere in this conversation also. _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Funkadelic
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
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We have a very strong squad. Even last year with key injuries we won 80% of our games. My concern last year was our defence as a team. Too many times we were scored on quickly and heavily, there were games when we were really locked in but teams that could spread the ball fast really hurt us.Our defensive core was exposed badly by poor structures further up the field.I think tactically we were still playing 2010 football, which is understandable with the success it brought. Having said all that I strongly believe bucks and his coaching staff will have a better handle on our structures this season _________________ Tear the roof off tha sucker!!! |
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brett71
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
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Post subject: Our Best 22 + the Dirty Dozen = Flag! | |
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If Keefe can get back to his form before injuries last year has he surpassed Brown? I found him to be more mobile, a better kick and a great one grab mark in the mould of Reid. Thoughts? |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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First thought, Brett, is that I agree. Keefe is a gem.
Second thought is that the Brown of 2012 was only slowly recovering his zip after the trauma of a full knee reconstruction. Yes, the op was a long time ago, but knees can take ages before genuine top form returns. Brown should be substantially better in 2013.
Third thought is that Keefe did his knee in 2012. We can hope, but we can't really expect him to be back to his previous best form till 2014 or so.
Fourth thought is that Brown, as a naturally not-so-quick player, really needs that fine edge of 100% fitness before he can play his role to good effect. For a full back, pace over 10 metres, even over 5 metres, is just critical: Brown is a big, strong man, not a naturally quick one. Her could be 10% down on his bench-press and no-one would notice much difference, but 10% down on his fast-lead acceleration and he's just conceded a bagful. So, for Brown, a knee is a particularly bad injury, worse than it might be for (say) Cloke or even Reid.
Fifth thought is that Keefe seems to have so much go in him that being 5% off his best pace might still see him going OK. Unlike Brown, he's got a little bit to spare.
Sixth and final thought is that Brown has made a habit of proving his doubters wrong and performing superbly in big games when it matters.
Seventh and really final thought is that we will be very damn lucky to get the answers to this question this year. the sad reality is that Keefe will almost certainly either get injured himself or else spend large slabs of the year filling the hole in the side left by an injured Brown, Reid, Cloke, or Lynch. Sides at this time of year always look fantastic, with top-class players not making it into the 22. By July, we are always moaning about our lack of depth to cover key roles. Life is like that. _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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loki04
Tiger Treloar lmfao NOPE.
Joined: 10 Apr 2005 Location: Broken Hill
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Mossi wrote: | themonk wrote: | I have a feeling many will disagree but I wouldn't have Maxwell in our best 22.
He has been important in terms of leadership & experience to our backline but his skills are ordinary and I hope someone will take the next step this year and push him out, possibly Keefe. |
Maxy is still in our best 22 for the moment! His skills are not that bad he just looks a little aukward, but its his qualities apart from his leadership that warrant this! He is tough! Wont take a step back even with the most intimidating forwards or players the other sides come up with, can tackle hard, shepherd for his team mates can read the play better than most, makes good decisions. His only down side is his lack of pace but that is usually made up by his other qualities. That being said I am sure if a Hartley begins to fill those shoes and Maxy drops off Bucks wont hesitate to replace him! I like the idea of the best 32 or 35 more than 22! In the end it's at least a best 30 that will win us a flag! |
Maxwell doesn't make good decisions with the ball and his disposals vary rarely hits a target too advantage.
He does read the play very well and is hard at it but ball usage is not his forte. _________________ Up the Mighty Mags 2016. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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On the contrary, Maxwell's disposal by foot is good (not brilliant, but good) and his disposal by hand is outstanding. _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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loki04
Tiger Treloar lmfao NOPE.
Joined: 10 Apr 2005 Location: Broken Hill
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Tannin wrote: | On the contrary, Maxwell's disposal by foot is good (not brilliant, but good) and his disposal by hand is outstanding. |
Yeah i guess if you look away after he kicks and not follow where the ball actually lands....
He is a bomb and hope and rarely kicks to advantage usually plonks it on top of Clokes head 3v1 or kicks to no mans land.
He often hand balls to players under more pressure then he is under people bemoaned S.Buckley for much the same reasons as Maxwell does with his disposal. In fact there was game last year where he hand balled to Buckley who had a [player on his hammer and Buckley subsequently got caught HTB, Maxwell had more space and time then the oncoming Buckley...
When was the last time you saw Maxwell hit up a leading target? bet you find it hard even to find a highlight of him doing it. _________________ Up the Mighty Mags 2016.
Last edited by loki04 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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brett71
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
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Thanks Tanin for that very considered response. I guess the next question then is if both Keefe and Brown are hypothetically both at their best based on their past form who would give the greatest value to the team? From my own personal perspective I would lean towards Keefe just because I like his attacking flair versus stodgy defence. Maybe a horses for coursese policy? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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brett71 wrote: | Thanks Tanin for that very considered response. I guess the next question then is if both Keefe and Brown are hypothetically both at their best based on their past form who would give the greatest value to the team? From my own personal perspective I would lean towards Keefe just because I like his attacking flair versus stodgy defence. Maybe a horses for coursese policy? |
Keeffe is going to need time, particularly in the weights room working on leg strength. The way he did his knee, Tippett just basically overpowered both him and his knee.
I like the kid, don't get me wrong, but if he's going to stand up next to blokes the same height and hold his ground, he needs to gain muscle and confidence.
Once he does that, he'll be a weapon. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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woftam
I used to be undecided, but now I'm not so sure.
Joined: 28 Jul 2008 Location: Carum Downs, Vic
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Tannin wrote: | On the contrary, Maxwell's disposal by foot is good (not brilliant, but good) and his disposal by hand is outstanding. |
I don't know if Maxy's foot skills are up to par or not, because just about every time he had it he bombed the ball on the heads of our forwards last year. Probably more a game plan thing than anything else. Speaking off game plan. It seems to have been forgotten about in all the "we have great depth" posts.
Yes we had injuries & that affects the ability to play to your best, but our zoning game style absolutely drove me bonkers last year. Every game there were free opposition players all over the ground. Meanwhile our guys were standing there as if nailed to a cross guarding space. In my opinion our coaching staff have to improve more than any player has to. They are a young inexperienced coaching staff. Hopefully they learned a lot from 2012 & have a lot tighter structure in place in 2013. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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^ agree Woftam
I think a part of this problem last year was that our forward line was pretty dysfunctional, and with no-one kicking many goals, and no-one providing compelling value on the lead, players streaming downfield were losing confidence in their forwards and unsure what the hell to do with the pill. After a bit of that, you just panic and boom it long on Cloke's head, hoping that the big boy can pull off a miracle mark. Maxwell did it, but then so did every other player except Leon, and Leon was playing WAFL! _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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