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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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PyreneesPie wrote: | Donny wrote: | Our defenders kept us in the game.
Roughy - 17 disposals @ 94.1% D/E
Howe - 21 @ 95
Maynard - 24 @ 87.5
Greenwood - 17 @ 88.2
Crisp - 27 but scrambled a lot, so D/E was low: 52% |
Informative stats, Donny. Thanks.
One positive thought that went through my mind watching today's game is that Greenwood has found a spot that really suits him. Okay, so he wasn't a stand-out like last week, but his attack on the ball is just ferocious, he's a strong body, he can mark cleanly and he delivers up-field really well. Plays so much like Maynard. |
flatfooted and showed his less than perfect defensive skills at the end there, but i agree his attack on the ball in defense has been going quite well.
Cant help but think we needed a real defender down there at the end of the game. Might not have given up that mark. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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bally12
Joined: 30 Sep 2010
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[quote="Cam"] Quote: | Crisp broke lines and ran all day, ditto Aish, ditto Maynard. |
Crisp topped the clanger count out of all the players on the field at 8., many of those under no pressure and when we were breaking, stopping us in our tracks. Went at disposal efficiency @51%.
Yes, he did play well....for Fremantle. |
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Cam
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002 Location: Springvale
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Reminded me of the skinny McGovern's mark when he was playing for Adelaide that he kicked to draw. _________________ Get back on top. |
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Duff Soviet Union
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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Magpietothemax wrote: | Cam wrote: | Crisp broke lines and ran all day, ditto Aish, ditto Maynard. They can hold their heads up. With Phillips being sat on, they were our guys who ran and took the game on. Seriously I'm not sure what game some people have been watching.
Lyon plotted our downfall and did with tactics that we failed to counter.
They broke even with us in clearances, centre clearances and stoppages. Given we had Grundy, who had 47 hitouts to Lobbes 13 [probably against Reid] that tells you something that needs to be investigated.
We lost it around the ball, with our setups, their setups, their position and placement of extra players around the stoppages, and between the stoppage and the likely next kicked to contest.
It's too simplistic to think we were beaten on endeavour [although perhaps they had a little more], skill [we weren't] or scoring efficiency [about equal]. It's down to how did they limit our normal style, how did they close down our running space, the small areas of openness that have existed all year for us to run into, handball into and tap into.
This is what Bucks and his team will be analysing this week, not oh Treloar can't kick and Beams and Sidey are not trying, which is oversimplistic bullshit that serves no-one but some supporters trying to place blame on someone or someones for the hurt we all feel when we lose. Dissect it and figure out what was going on and how to defeat it before someone else does it to us. |
i know several others have quoted this as well, but I am too because it is a really educational post. Makes alot of sense to me in retrospect. You've just explained why our ball movement looked so pedestrian, and we never seemed to get any brilliant transitions through the centre corridor as we often do. I noticed it during the game, but did not know why.
They constricted us, and as you say, we need to understand what they did and how to counter it.
I thought Crisp didn't play so well, because I recall a few horrible kicks of his straight to the opposition, but clearly I did not recall his efforts and positive actions enough. I will have to rewatch the game again (if I can force myself) to make a better judgment.
You say we were not beaten in skill level, but I do think that the quality of our disposals and handball was down. However, your analysis also explains why our handball was not as effective as usual: their constriction of our space made our handball far less effective. |
I love Crisp, think he's a star. But he was flat out dreadful yesterday. In particular his third quarter was an absolute horror show. I think he turned it over literally every time he touched it.
Does anyone have a breakdown of the clearances when Grundy was rucking vs when Reid was? I don't remember us winning a single clearance when Reid was in the ruck.
Also, how many goals did we give up out the back? That hasn't happened in a couple of years at least. _________________ "We ain't gotta dream no more" |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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Pies4shaw wrote: | ^ Well this is only his second solid-ish game in a row - he's building up his fitness base. |
It sure was encouraging though that he was named as Collingwood's best, with 34 disposals. Maybe even a decent half to three quarters from Sier is worth more than what we got yesterday from our mids for the whole game? (Pendles aside).
Really pleased too that Schazz got safely through a half of football and collected 13 disposals in the process. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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Cam wrote: |
Given we had Grundy, who had 47 hitouts to Lobbes 13 [probably against Reid] that tells you something that needs to be investigated.. |
Cam, this has been going on for most of the season, at least out of the middle anyway. I'd say that the coaches are trying their hardest to work out why. It's also been discussed here at length.
It seems to be a mystery - maybe it's the combination of mid-fielders we have in at the middle. What type of players do we need in there? Someone with quick, silky skills - tick Pendles. Someone with quick outside spread speed - Treloar should be able to do that. An in and under grunt player - Tay or Sier simply because of his bulk or JDG. We've hardly had such a combination all season, for various reasons.
Quote: | We lost it around the ball, with our setups, their setups, their position and placement of extra players around the stoppages, and between the stoppage and the likely next kicked to contest. |
Sounds extremely logical to me. It begs the question doesn't it - where were the opponents of these extra Freo players, I wonder? |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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jatsad wrote: | I noticed yesterday clearly that Sidey has lost a yard in pace. That's ok, but being asked to play wing requires a lot of running at pace.
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I noticed that too with Sidey. He trailed behind Freo players on the run on quite a few occasions. Also, I noticed that at one centre bounce, he didn't even venture into the fray - just sat there looking on the wing.
Let's hope he was just having an off day - perhaps mentally and physically tired? |
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woodys_world69
Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Location: Brisbane
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De Goey/ pendles / greenwood
easily our best on the day.
dont underplay the fact that the players are human..and could tell there gameplan was being out trumped by freo's....and alot where getting flustered and frustrated during the game.
we had a few games like this last year and made the granny.....we still have alot of scope to play with by 100% need a better plan B tactic when the 2 perth teams stitch us up. |
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Nearly
Joined: 16 Nov 2012
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Well seems I picked the wrong weekend to trip down to Melbourne from Sydney for the game.
Disappointing for sure, but hey it’s very difficult to keep winning forever. I’m remarkably comfortable with it. In the long run it probably won’t hurt, and may be a positive.
And I’d much rather have walked out of the MCG with a loss this week than walked out of the SCG with a loss last week.
Worth keeping in mind. We played poorly, a couple of things didn’t go our way, and yet still we were in a winning position and went down by less than a kick.
My two bobs on set shot goal kicking. When I was an ordinary struggling junior footballer and had a set shot, I would pick out someone behind the goals and kick it to them. I think these guys get caught up looking at the sticks and trying to steer it through them. Whereas they can all hit someone’s chest from 40 if they’re not being tackled/pushed/harassed, every.single.time. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Duff Soviet Union wrote: | Magpietothemax wrote: | Cam wrote: | Crisp broke lines and ran all day, ditto Aish, ditto Maynard. They can hold their heads up. With Phillips being sat on, they were our guys who ran and took the game on. Seriously I'm not sure what game some people have been watching.
Lyon plotted our downfall and did with tactics that we failed to counter.
They broke even with us in clearances, centre clearances and stoppages. Given we had Grundy, who had 47 hitouts to Lobbes 13 [probably against Reid] that tells you something that needs to be investigated.
We lost it around the ball, with our setups, their setups, their position and placement of extra players around the stoppages, and between the stoppage and the likely next kicked to contest.
It's too simplistic to think we were beaten on endeavour [although perhaps they had a little more], skill [we weren't] or scoring efficiency [about equal]. It's down to how did they limit our normal style, how did they close down our running space, the small areas of openness that have existed all year for us to run into, handball into and tap into.
This is what Bucks and his team will be analysing this week, not oh Treloar can't kick and Beams and Sidey are not trying, which is oversimplistic bullshit that serves no-one but some supporters trying to place blame on someone or someones for the hurt we all feel when we lose. Dissect it and figure out what was going on and how to defeat it before someone else does it to us. |
i know several others have quoted this as well, but I am too because it is a really educational post. Makes alot of sense to me in retrospect. You've just explained why our ball movement looked so pedestrian, and we never seemed to get any brilliant transitions through the centre corridor as we often do. I noticed it during the game, but did not know why.
They constricted us, and as you say, we need to understand what they did and how to counter it.
I thought Crisp didn't play so well, because I recall a few horrible kicks of his straight to the opposition, but clearly I did not recall his efforts and positive actions enough. I will have to rewatch the game again (if I can force myself) to make a better judgment.
You say we were not beaten in skill level, but I do think that the quality of our disposals and handball was down. However, your analysis also explains why our handball was not as effective as usual: their constriction of our space made our handball far less effective. |
I love Crisp, think he's a star. But he was flat out dreadful yesterday. In particular his third quarter was an absolute horror show. I think he turned it over literally every time he touched it.
Does anyone have a breakdown of the clearances when Grundy was rucking vs when Reid was? I don't remember us winning a single clearance when Reid was in the ruck.
Also, how many goals did we give up out the back? That hasn't happened in a couple of years at least. |
i agree, both with him being a favorite and the fact that he had a very very bad day. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Abdul The Bull
Joined: 02 Aug 2017
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Cam wrote: |
Lyon plotted our downfall and did with tactics that we failed to counter...
We lost it around the ball, with our setups, their setups, their position and placement of extra players around the stoppages, and between the stoppage and the likely next kicked to contest...
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This is precisely the issue. Despite a dominant Ruckman and a much lauded midfield we have been poor in this area. This needs to be addressed. _________________ There are 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Abdul The Bull wrote: | Cam wrote: |
Lyon plotted our downfall and did with tactics that we failed to counter...
We lost it around the ball, with our setups, their setups, their position and placement of extra players around the stoppages, and between the stoppage and the likely next kicked to contest...
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This is precisely the issue. Despite a dominant Ruckman and a much lauded midfield we have been poor in this area. This needs to be addressed. |
....and yet we are 8-3 (which is the equal of every team in the league except the cats).
Imagine if we get our shit together.....
Think our expectations are so sky high, we are going to be annoyed many times during the season.
Is it possible that we are doing a heavy training schedule right now to build a base for the finals? Sometimes the good teams do that a couple of times a year to be ready to fire in September, even though it can hurt performance during those weeks. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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