A Novel Idea
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Post subject: A Novel Idea | |
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so as we look at the bottom of the draft, the only team with a high draft pick who arguably has a team that is finals bound next year is Greater Western Sydney.
Players to GWS for our 2 or 3 pick and then something to North with the promise not to touch their choice for number 1, and we get the number 1 pick AND Daicos!!
Since we are 5 years from a flag, the players i'd offer up are Sidey and Maynard. Both would make GWS better instantly and neither will play in our next flag. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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Post subject: Re: A Novel Idea | |
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E wrote: | so as we look at the bottom of the draft, the only team with a high draft pick who arguably has a team that is finals bound next year is Greater Western Sydney.
Players to GWS for our 2 or 3 pick and then something to North with the promise not to touch their choice for number 1, and we get the number 1 pick AND Daicos!!
Since we are 5 years from a flag, the players i'd offer up are Sidey and Maynard. Both would make GWS better instantly and neither will play in our next flag. |
Dunno about Maynard, when Moore and Howe get back, he makes a very strong backline. _________________ Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Post subject: Re: A Novel Idea | |
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Piesnchess wrote: | E wrote: | so as we look at the bottom of the draft, the only team with a high draft pick who arguably has a team that is finals bound next year is Greater Western Sydney.
Players to GWS for our 2 or 3 pick and then something to North with the promise not to touch their choice for number 1, and we get the number 1 pick AND Daicos!!
Since we are 5 years from a flag, the players i'd offer up are Sidey and Maynard. Both would make GWS better instantly and neither will play in our next flag. |
Dunno about Maynard, when Moore and Howe get back, he makes a very strong backline. |
Good point. Let's package up Howe and Maynard for the GWS number 2 draft pick. Neither of them will be around in 5 years so make perfect trade material as they are stars today and could make GWS a contender. We can then swap the pick with North and tell North they still get the one pick as we wont take their boy. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Big T
Joined: 18 Oct 2003 Location: Torino, Italy
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They want more than that. _________________ Buon Giorno |
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Harrysz
Joined: 15 Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne
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I like the bit about "the promise not to touch their choice for number 1" - there's something somewhere about not manipulating the draft.
there are severe penalties for that! |
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simon tonna
Joined: 24 Oct 2013 Location: carindale
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E. Collingwood has needed to trade players with value for the last 5 years to stay competitive for the one and only goal in the competition. What makes you think as a club we would do the right thing now? _________________ no second chances |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Elwood
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Post subject: Re: A Novel Idea | |
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E wrote: | so as we look at the bottom of the draft, the only team with a high draft pick who arguably has a team that is finals bound next year is Greater Western Sydney.
Players to GWS for our 2 or 3 pick and then something to North with the promise not to touch their choice for number 1, and we get the number 1 pick AND Daicos!!
Since we are 5 years from a flag, the players i'd offer up are Sidey and Maynard. Both would make GWS better instantly and neither will play in our next flag. |
You never give up your best players if you want to get better. How about we give up the players who:
1) drop marks that should be taken
2) miss gettable goals
3) miss targets by foot and hand
4) don’t spoil properly and fail to tag their opponent
5) fail to create their opportunities
After watching yesterday’s game we know who those players are and Maynard wasn’t one of them. |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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Post subject: | |
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Great to see you author some content E. Well done. Maynard is 24 years old and would like to think he has a career post 29 years of age ahead of him. Melbourne reportedly are keen on him. That being said I think the Gold Coast are our best destination club to offload talent given their dearth of experienced culture setting players. Who on our list could make a difference to them?
Probably Steele Sidebottom. 30 years old, never relied on pace, durable, outside one indiscretion is a pillar and with his 2022 being his last year on his current deal, the allure of a 3 year deal on good money may interest him given we are out of our premiership window. What would we ask for and what may be realistic? Given he is contracted to us we do have "hand" so their pick 22 maybe a handy starting point.
Can't see them wanting J Thomas but given he is a Gold Coast protege, he may be steak knives in the deal. _________________ I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Elwood
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Sorry, don't agree with any of that. You take a player we have on the rookie list in Jack Ginnivan. He tackles well, makes the most of his opportunities and kicks the ball through the middle of the goals. These guys could turn out better than a top 10 draft pick. You may or may not get a first round pick for Maynard + Sidebottom + Josh Thomas, but it will only send our fortunes backwards, not forwards. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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Post subject: | |
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At some point, if you keep treating players as pawns, it further tarnishes our image as a destination club.
Having said that, if Sidey ( or whoever ) came to the club and said I’m open to a change of club, then that’s a different story but until players like him can no longer hold his spot in our best 22, I think they are better served as mentors and leaders to our young group ( particularly with our list profile )
If I was to consider an optional strategy in relation to improving our draft / trading hand at the end of the season, I would put our 2022 first round pick on the table ( subject to AFL rules which I can’t confirm ) We would be expected to be rubbish again in 2022, so the return on that pick would be significant. Much easier to find suitors for a top ten pick than a thirty year old quality player who is well past his best. By 2022, our list will be that young, the club may not feel the need for more youth on the list anyway.
Chopping up our 2022 first rounder would easily wipe any 2021 points deficit away and also either pick up a ready made player OR invest again with another mid range pick in the 2021 draft.
While it smacks of chasing our tail at the draft, I think it’s a more sound option than throwing around senior players names like they’re horse meat. |
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Boogie Knights
Joined: 18 Sep 2015
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As always, Pies2016 provides a sound, logical and reasonable option.
My understanding of the rule for trading future 1sts is that you must have used 2 first round picks in the preceding 4 years to be eligible. On that basis, we will have used 5 as follows (regardless of 4 year period; 2017 - 2020 or 2018 - 2021).
- 2021 - 1 x Nick Daicos
- 2020 - 3 x Oliver Henry, Fin Macrae, Reef McInnes
- 2019 - 0
- 2018 - 1 x IQ
- 2017 - 1 x Jaidyn Stephenson
This would allow us to trade our 2022 first rounder.
The problem with trading future firsts, without a first round FS for that year, is you don't have first round young talent coming into the club, as has been the case following the Treloar, Beams deals which have left us a bit of a donut list - players starting their careers or nearing retirement with nothing in the middle. It's a bit similar to back ending contracts where the club makes a future sacrifice for present day pay off.
The difference in our situation is that we have plenty of youngsters on the list now and with the additions of Daicos and (hopefully) Dib we may, as Pies2016 says, not be looking for more as we'll have enough. Instead of drafting top end youngsters, we can look at taking a punt in the middle of the draft on mature agers hoping we strike another Checkers to fill out the list. This can also be done needs based rather than best available.
I would absolutely be looking to bring that 2022 pick forward to cover all the Daicos points and bring in another asset with it. |
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derkd
Joined: 29 May 2013
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Post subject: Re: A Novel Idea | |
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E wrote: | so as we look at the bottom of the draft, the only team with a high draft pick who arguably has a team that is finals bound next year is Greater Western Sydney.
Players to GWS for our 2 or 3 pick and then something to North with the promise not to touch their choice for number 1, and we get the number 1 pick AND Daicos!!
Since we are 5 years from a flag, the players i'd offer up are Sidey and Maynard. Both would make GWS better instantly and neither will play in our next flag. |
Sidebottom is 29, not worth a top end draft pick. To get pick 2 or 3 out of GWS we would be giving up Moore, and I don't think many of us would back this idea.
Secondly what would be the point of getting pick let say 2? as it would be swallowed up on getting Nick Daicos anyway.
Where the club has screwed up monumentally (in my opinion) and again I may be proven wrong in the fullness of time.
They should have held on to their first round pick till this trade period, then turned it into multiple picks. The value would have been far higher.
I know what people will argue, if we had not done the trade we would not have gotten Beau Mccreery, Poulter, etc. Correct, but we can't make a call on them after one year...yep they might be good, they might also not be we don't know what sort of players they will be for years yet....with the team tracking this badly...it is very hard to discern promise from luck...it is hardly we are winning many games.
From a pure trade points win/loss I am arguing that selling that pick last year was a huge gamble by a desperate club....and it will prove to be a really poor one. _________________ "To know nothing of events before your birth, is to forever remain a child" - Cicero (Roman Lawyer/Senator) 46 BCE. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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Post subject: | |
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^ ^ ^
Cheers B K.
I think your eligibility summary is right but I’m always mindful of the AFL constantly shifting the goal posts on anything connected to draft and trading rules. Hopefully the above stands firm for the upcoming trade period and we can at least entertain the idea when the time comes. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Post subject: Re: A Novel Idea | |
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MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | E wrote: | so as we look at the bottom of the draft, the only team with a high draft pick who arguably has a team that is finals bound next year is Greater Western Sydney.
Players to GWS for our 2 or 3 pick and then something to North with the promise not to touch their choice for number 1, and we get the number 1 pick AND Daicos!!
Since we are 5 years from a flag, the players i'd offer up are Sidey and Maynard. Both would make GWS better instantly and neither will play in our next flag. |
You never give up your best players if you want to get better. How about we give up the players who:
1) drop marks that should be taken
2) miss gettable goals
3) miss targets by foot and hand
4) don’t spoil properly and fail to tag their opponent
5) fail to create their opportunities
After watching yesterday’s game we know who those players are and Maynard wasn’t one of them. |
i agree we should give up those players. But you don't trade them cause you cant. You just send them down to lower tier comps where they can tear it up and have fans missing them. Sier and Collum Brown are going to be awesome in those roles. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Post subject: | |
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inxs88 wrote: | Great to see you author some content E. Well done. Maynard is 24 years old and would like to think he has a career post 29 years of age ahead of him. Melbourne reportedly are keen on him. That being said I think the Gold Coast are our best destination club to offload talent given their dearth of experienced culture setting players. Who on our list could make a difference to them?
Probably Steele Sidebottom. 30 years old, never relied on pace, durable, outside one indiscretion is a pillar and with his 2022 being his last year on his current deal, the allure of a 3 year deal on good money may interest him given we are out of our premiership window. What would we ask for and what may be realistic? Given he is contracted to us we do have "hand" so their pick 22 maybe a handy starting point.
Can't see them wanting J Thomas but given he is a Gold Coast protege, he may be steak knives in the deal. |
Shit, Maynard is only 24?? I though he was 29!! He has been with us literally forever!! Scratch that. He should join the other players that we will build the next premiership around
1. Daicos (1
2. Poulter (1
3. Quaynor (21)
4. Daicos (22)
5. Maynard (24)
6. Moore (25)
7. DeGoey (25)
8. Grundy (27)
9. Adams (27)
10. Crisp (27)
11. Elliot (2
Gee it would be nice if a couple of other kids put their hands up soon.
Actually, looking at this list, we don't really have 5 years to rebuild. Our best players are already 25-28yo. In 4 years most of them will be in decline!! No wonder we tried to get into last years draft rather than wait. We really needed some players in the 21-24 old bracket in addition to Daicos and Quaynor. Oh boy, the Beams and Treloar trades really really hurt us. And having Stevo end up a bust! we might have 5 additional quality players at the club had we not done that.
I fear a double rebuild will be necessary if we try and build through the dradft in the next 4 years. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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