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Bucks5
Nicky D - Parting the red sea
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Yeah, that didn't get a lot of publicity. I wonder how that went down with her team mates, there's quite a lot of Lesbians playing in the AFLW.
The 7 Manly players aren't exactly homogeneous in their backgrounds here either. Real mix of backgrounds and beliefs. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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And their team got pantsed. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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With half your first choice team out, not an unpredictable result. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Any Manly loss is a good one. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Good stuff from the two lads; I didn't realise that.
As Stui alludes, it's even more of an affront with the opening of professional sport to women. The breaking down of oppressive gendered assumptions about who should play what has had a damaging exclusionary effect on women and the LBGT community both. It's one and the same problem.
Religion, which needs its own defending in other contexts despite itself, doesn't have some god-given right to harm people (you'd think that goes without saying even from its own perspective given its claims to morality, but such are the contradictions). Every special dispensation enabling religion to violate rights has to go, and this highlights just why.
Apparently, Putin is looking for people to join his crusade against modern civilisation. Two beets, a withered potato, a shot of vodka and a one-way ticket to Siberia is the going offer. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Pies4shaw wrote: | Any Manly loss is a good one. |
My SIL born and raised in the Bondi area is a friggin Manly and Geelong supporter. My daughter is a pies supporter.
Apart from batting out of his league I got the Pies baby membership but he got the NRL rights _________________ “I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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That's great to hear; good on both of them for doing that. So much more meaningful when such a gesture comes from individual players out of their own choosing.
This whole thing reminds me a bit of Colin Kaepernick taking a knee in the NFL. That was a brave act that really meant something, and those players who did the same in solidarity sent a powerful message – and some faced professional consequences as a result. And then at some point it became co-opted by the league and expected for all players to do it, and those who refused were the ones who faced condemnation and ostracisation. Says something about the totalitarian nature of modern society and the lack of space for personal choice; when the clubs and league get involved, it's less about being for or against the political message itself than it is about a commercial organisation controlling what its employees can say or do. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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pietillidie wrote: | Discrimination is a harm, not a religious right. Sexual preference on the other hand is a right. It's not a matter of conscience that we merely tolerate because prohibition is worse, which is an inherently offensive view.
The problem now is not a lack of religious freedom; on the contrary, it's that we've granted religion a special allowance to discriminate contrary to law for far too long, such as by allowing certain churches to discriminate against women.
Did I just read the Shrine pulled its rainbow lighting because bigots were vandalising it? That's offensive. Police the vandalising bigots, not the bloody rainbow lighting.
Here you go, it's worse than vandalism; it's standover thuggery:
Quote: | Managers at the Shrine of Remembrance have cancelled plans to illuminate the landmark in rainbow colours after staff received threats and abuse ahead of an exhibition celebrating the service of LGBTQ veterans. |
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/shrine-of-remembrance-ditches-rainbow-light-plan-after-receiving-threats-abuse-20220730-p5b5we.html |
Totally agree re: the Shrine – it was an act of cowardice to give in to the bullies and not go ahead with the lighting – but I think you underestimate the importance of religious freedom in the first part of the post. Let's not forget the recent precedent in this area: a high-profile rugby union player losing his job for (in a non-professional context) publicising his church's teachings on homosexuality. That for me is a clear and dangerous blow to religious freedom, and religious freedom absolutely matters if we care about maintaining a pluralistic society. Labor MP Stephen Jones, one of parliament's most dedicated supporters of LGBTQIA rights, is a rare voice of reason on this: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-25/this-is-what-multiculturalism-looks-like/11246136
The Manly case for me is a much smaller issue – the club was well within its rights to adopt a gay pride guernsey, and the players were well within their rights to refuse to wear it and boycott the match, just as Haneen Zreika did (to far less public consternation; here’s a representative take from earlier in the year: https://amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/hearing-haneen-why-zreika-s-aflw-pride-round-stance-must-be-respected-20220202-p59tbw.html) earlier in the year. The hardest lesson we need to learn as a society is that we can't always make people think the way we want them to think, for better or for worse, and that it's not actually reasonable to make people pretend to support something they don't support. Progress can happen (and has happened) without needing to use a cudgel.
But if people want to foster a Putin-style anti-liberal backlash, they're absolutely going about it in the right way by acting like small-time totalitarians about these matters. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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soooooo people who pray to what ever god or imaginary figure they choose can boycott but the people who fought for your freedom have to take it? no absolutley not. just as with the covid riots i am so sick of the sacred ground of the shrine being used for any kind of protest or other stuff
this guy
"“I think the Shrine is sacrosanct and shouldn’t be used in that way, not just for gay and LGBTQI issues but on any issues,” he said.
“It’s one thing to illuminate Town Hall or Flinders Street Station. I think it’s a bigger step to illuminate the Shrine.”"
yep
why does every single thing in society and every day life have to come out and wave flags for the flavour of the month cause?
i totally get wht footy has an indigenous round, its appropriate, but the rest, mothers, gay, umpires for fucksake, no, over it _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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David wrote: | pietillidie wrote: | Discrimination is a harm, not a religious right. Sexual preference on the other hand is a right. It's not a matter of conscience that we merely tolerate because prohibition is worse, which is an inherently offensive view.
The problem now is not a lack of religious freedom; on the contrary, it's that we've granted religion a special allowance to discriminate contrary to law for far too long, such as by allowing certain churches to discriminate against women.
Did I just read the Shrine pulled its rainbow lighting because bigots were vandalising it? That's offensive. Police the vandalising bigots, not the bloody rainbow lighting.
Here you go, it's worse than vandalism; it's standover thuggery:
Quote: | Managers at the Shrine of Remembrance have cancelled plans to illuminate the landmark in rainbow colours after staff received threats and abuse ahead of an exhibition celebrating the service of LGBTQ veterans. |
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/shrine-of-remembrance-ditches-rainbow-light-plan-after-receiving-threats-abuse-20220730-p5b5we.html |
Totally agree re: the Shrine – it was an act of cowardice to give in to the bullies and not go ahead with the lighting – but I think you underestimate the importance of religious freedom in the first part of the post. Let's not forget the recent precedent in this area: a high-profile rugby union player losing his job for (in a non-professional context) publicising his church's teachings on homosexuality. That for me is a clear and dangerous blow to religious freedom, and religious freedom absolutely matters if we care about maintaining a pluralistic society. Labor MP Stephen Jones, one of parliament's most dedicated supporters of LGBTQIA rights, is a rare voice of reason on this: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-25/this-is-what-multiculturalism-looks-like/11246136
The Manly case for me is a much smaller issue – the club was well within its rights to adopt a gay pride guernsey, and the players were well within their rights to refuse to wear it and boycott the match, just as Haneen Zreika did (to far less public consternation; here’s a representative take from earlier in the year: https://amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/hearing-haneen-why-zreika-s-aflw-pride-round-stance-must-be-respected-20220202-p59tbw.html) earlier in the year. The hardest lesson we need to learn as a society is that we can't always make people think the way we want them to think, for better or for worse, and that it's not actually reasonable to make people pretend to support something they don't support. Progress can happen (and has happened) without needing to use a cudgel.
But if people want to foster a Putin-style anti-liberal backlash, they're absolutely going about it in the right way by acting like small-time totalitarians about these matters. |
This is the thing.
Do what you want to do, be what you want to be, make your own decisions. Therefore, why do we have to continually have to have the LGBTQIA agenda forced down everyone's throat? Gay marriage is legal now and, from what I have seen over the past few years, the majority of people don't care what anybody else does. Sure, you'll always have your extremists, but that goes for many different issues.
Are there some other 'demands' that they want addressing... I don't get it _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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think positive wrote: | soooooo people who pray to what ever god or imaginary figure they choose can boycott but the people who fought for your freedom have to take it? no absolutley not. just as with the covid riots i am so sick of the sacred ground of the shrine being used for any kind of protest or other stuff
this guy
"“I think the Shrine is sacrosanct and shouldn’t be used in that way, not just for gay and LGBTQI issues but on any issues,” he said.
“It’s one thing to illuminate Town Hall or Flinders Street Station. I think it’s a bigger step to illuminate the Shrine.”"
yep
why does every single thing in society and every day life have to come out and wave flags for the flavour of the month cause?
i totally get wht footy has an indigenous round, its appropriate, but the rest, mothers, gay, umpires for fucksake, no, over it |
I haven't looked into it, but isn't the point to honour LGBTQIA soldiers who've served their country? If so, is that really so inappropriate?
Skids wrote: | Do what you want to do, be what you want to be, make your own decisions. Therefore, why do we have to continually have to have the LGBTQIA agenda forced down everyone's throat? Gay marriage is legal now and, from what I have seen over the past few years, the majority of people don't care what anybody else does. Sure, you'll always have your extremists, but that goes for many different issues.
Are there some other 'demands' that they want addressing... I don't get it |
Across the NRL and AFL combined, in over 100 years, there has been one single player who has felt comfortable coming out publicly. One, almost three decades ago. While straight footballers take their wives and girlfriends to the Brownlow and others post about their family lives on Instagram, gay players – and we know, from various anecdotes here and there, that there have been at least some, including right now – have felt a need to maintain a key part of their lives in secret.
It'd be nice if we lived in a post-homophobia society, but we don't. The "agenda" you refer to that's being "forced down people's throat" revolves around equality and dignity. That's all.
I'd actually be interested to hear what you think constitutes having other people's orientation forced down your throat. Is it seeing a gay couple kiss on TV? Is it seeing a rainbow flag on the street? Is it having homosexuality discussed in the classroom? Because if you have a problem with any of the above, but no problem with all the representations of heterosexual love in our culture, then that is in fact part of the same issue and precisely why the "agenda" is necessary. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Anyhow, Rundle, as is so often the case, puts it best:
https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/07/28/manly-players-sea-eagles-pride-jersey/
Quote: | The Manly Sea Eagles jersey controversy began as another one of those silly and unnecessary culture skirmishes that sports clubs get us into. But it has very rapidly become a major example of an expression of prejudice alive in our society today. Trouble is, the prejudice is the implicit and explicit condescending racism directed towards the seven players (six being Islanders and one of Nigerian and Indigenous Australian descent) who have refused to play in a “pride” jersey tonight.
The initial impetus seemed to be to construct the seven as severe and persecutory, in the Israel Folau mould. That was clearly over the top. So the line changed — and became worse. Now, in op-eds and comments they were treated, mainly by progressives, as grinning idiots, too simple to know their own minds and led astray by either a sinister mind-cult or by colonialism or both.
How on earth did an exercise in tolerance and inclusivity come to this? |
_________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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The main lesson from all of this is that Manly should have recognised their player demographic and simply consulted with them, before they had Pride jersey's manufactured months ago and sent to celebrities.
If they had of done that genuinely then some of that 7 players might have felt happy to wear the jersey and none of this shit would have happened. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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David wrote: | think positive wrote: | soooooo people who pray to what ever god or imaginary figure they choose can boycott but the people who fought for your freedom have to take it? no absolutley not. just as with the covid riots i am so sick of the sacred ground of the shrine being used for any kind of protest or other stuff
this guy
"“I think the Shrine is sacrosanct and shouldn’t be used in that way, not just for gay and LGBTQI issues but on any issues,” he said.
“It’s one thing to illuminate Town Hall or Flinders Street Station. I think it’s a bigger step to illuminate the Shrine.”"
yep
why does every single thing in society and every day life have to come out and wave flags for the flavour of the month cause?
i totally get wht footy has an indigenous round, its appropriate, but the rest, mothers, gay, umpires for fucksake, no, over it |
I haven't looked into it, but isn't the point to honour LGBTQIA soldiers who've served their country? If so, is that really so inappropriate?
Skids wrote: | Do what you want to do, be what you want to be, make your own decisions. Therefore, why do we have to continually have to have the LGBTQIA agenda forced down everyone's throat? Gay marriage is legal now and, from what I have seen over the past few years, the majority of people don't care what anybody else does. Sure, you'll always have your extremists, but that goes for many different issues.
Are there some other 'demands' that they want addressing... I don't get it |
Across the NRL and AFL combined, in over 100 years, there has been one single player who has felt comfortable coming out publicly. One, almost three decades ago. While straight footballers take their wives and girlfriends to the Brownlow and others post about their family lives on Instagram, gay players – and we know, from various anecdotes here and there, that there have been at least some, including right now – have felt a need to maintain a key part of their lives in secret.
It'd be nice if we lived in a post-homophobia society, but we don't. The "agenda" you refer to that's being "forced down people's throat" revolves around equality and dignity. That's all.
I'd actually be interested to hear what you think constitutes having other people's orientation forced down your throat. Is it seeing a gay couple kiss on TV? Is it seeing a rainbow flag on the street? Is it having homosexuality discussed in the classroom? Because if you have a problem with any of the above, but no problem with all the representations of heterosexual love in our culture, then that is in fact part of the same issue and precisely why the "agenda" is necessary. |
gay couples kissing doesnt bother me, im not really into sex graphic scenes unless its a porno where its expected, they make me squirm in company, no matter the sex pf the partners.
all it will take is for a male player to have the balls to front up with their partner. lots of the female players do, its the men who are hiding. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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